Riverside Info: Recent Posts

Riverside Info: Recent Posts http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Discussion Forum for Riverside Illinois en Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:21:32 +0000 mrt on "Landmark letter - Turnaround needed at RBHS" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/landmark-letter-turnaround-needed-at-rbhs/page/39#post-15923 Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:36:58 +0000 mrt 15923@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ District 208 (RBHS) Superintendent, Dr. Kevin Skinkis, will be presenting the District's Current Financial Status and Budget Planning Process at the Patrons' Council tonight. A portion of the presentation will be dedicated to receiving feedback and questions from audience members. Details below: Place: Alumni Lounge Date: Monday, February 6, 2012 Networking & refreshments: 7:00-7:30 pm Meeting begins: 7:30 pm mrt on "Latest (Feb, 2012) water bill seems high" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/latest-feb-2012-water-bill-seems-high#post-15922 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 18:38:19 +0000 mrt 15922@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <blockquote>Chicago's water rates are scheduled to increase 25 percent on Jan. 1, 2012 and increase an additional 15 percent each of the next three years.</blockquote> thanks, chris, for that info. mine went up accordingly - about 10 - 20 pct; but I probably do have a running toilet. maybe I vote for it this Novemeber! ChrisHajer on "Latest (Feb, 2012) water bill seems high" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/latest-feb-2012-water-bill-seems-high#post-15921 Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:07:47 +0000 ChrisHajer 15921@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ It's been in the Landmark and E-Flash quite a bit recently: <a href="http://rblandmark.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=8398&SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&S=1" rel="nofollow">http://rblandmark.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=8398&SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&S=1</a> <a href="http://rblandmark.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=8302&SectionID=3&SubSectionID=46&S=1" rel="nofollow">http://rblandmark.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=8302&SectionID=3&SubSectionID=46&S=1</a> Chicago news as well: <a href="http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/8301414-418/city-reveals-water-rates-to-keep-going-up-after-initial-4-year-hike.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/8301414-418/city-reveals-water-rates-to-keep-going-up-after-initial-4-year-hike.html</a> The rates were low compared to other cities. The increase hurts because it's relative to where we were before. Sort of how North Riverside residents have to pay for vehicle stickers now. They're cheaper than almost anywhere else around ($30) but because they were free, it seems like a huge insult to charge $30 for them now. FWIW, my Feb water bill is lower than the last one. Maybe it IS a leaky toilet?? chrisrobling on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/16#post-15920 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:14:17 +0000 chrisrobling 15920@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ 1. upon mitch daniels taking office in indiana, he removed the state from its dues-collection role for indiana state employee unions, allowing them to collect dues for themselves. he also made membership in those unions voluntary. union membership dropped more than 90 percent within six months to a year. 2. governor walker did likewise, along with the above-mentioned (up several posts) abolition of the REQUIREMENT that individual units of government buy insurance from the UNION-OWNED MONOPOLY insurance company. a) with the savings from buying insurance in the competitive marketplace, many wisconsin school districts hired new teachers. b) without the compulsory membership, and without the funds from automatic state dues collection, many union locals at individual units of government sprinkled across the state are de-certifying themselves for lack of membership as existing contracts end. 3. roughly 100 years ago, at the dawn of the modern U.S. labor movement, when my grandfather founded the first labor newspaper in central illinois, there was neither statutory nor legal protection for employee rights / safety / income, etc. a signal and enduring success of the U.S. labor movement, especially the combine AFofL-CIO, is the enactment of codebooks filled with state and federal law protecting workers' rights. concurrently, any number of lawsuits and decisions built up very elaborated bodies of related case law in the states and at the federal level. one reason organized labor's total of represented workers in private business has declined consistently over the last 50 years, and public employee unions appear headed in the same direction, is that employees now know well that their rights are protected by layers of process and tribunals. for many -- by no means all, to be sure -- that makes additional, contract-based remedies superfluous. couple that with the odiousness of compulsory unionism, greater tax and cost-of-living demands on members, and the divergence between labor leaders and rank-and-file, and one has a good picture why more than 90 percent of indiana's captive public employee union membership fled when they had the chance, and why the same is happening in wisconsin. the same will happen in private unions in indiana now, and it will happen in arizona or elsewhere if reforms there are enacted. it may well be the case that organized labor is a victim of its statutory and legal successes. it is apparently also the case that in its mandatory-membership template it is also an idea whose time has passed, with practice now catching up to new realities. on wisconsin. cheers, c mrt on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/16#post-15919 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:33:15 +0000 mrt 15919@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Is what is happening in Wisconsin about forcing public employees to pay union dues or not? While part of the story with this 'On Wisconsin' thread is the systematic attempt to erode "big labor", which I guess the above article is about, to me , the most egregious part of the wisconsin story is the removal of rights to collectively bargain (on top of not clearly statng this in the gubernatorial election only a few months before). I guess next door in Indiana the gov there just made it it illegal for unions to force people to pay dues - I think. Forcing people when something should be discretionary is probably not the best thing , BUT, <a href="es.chicagotribune.com/2012-01-29/site/ct-oped-0129-zorn-20120129_1_union-membership-labor-union-dues"> this article from the Tribune</a> also says that under Indiana law , employess who are wronged can avail themselves of the protections that unions give - now that sounds inconstant. the embedded link to zorn's tribune article did not work... here it is again <a href="http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2012/01/debating-indianas-union-busting-freeloader-enabling-bill.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2012/01/debating-indianas-union-busting-freeloader-enabling-bill.html</a> <blockquote>Friday, January 27, 2012 Coming up in the news cycle, Indiana's right-to-freeload bill It looks as though a high-profile right-to-freeload law about to pass in the Indiana legislature will be the focus of protests at next weekend's Super Bowl in Indianapolis. What? You haven't heard about the proposal? Maybe that's because virtually every news story refers to it, without qualification, as the right to work law. Look at the first two sentences in Wednesday afternoon's Associated Press story: Indiana's Republican-controlled House of Representatives cleared the way Wednesday to become the first right-to-work state in a traditionally union-heavy Rust Belt increasingly targeted by non-union foes. The House voted 54-44 to make Indiana the nation's 23rd right-to-work state after Democrats ended a periodic boycott which had stalled the measure for weeks. Whatever you call it, the basic idea is that employees should not be forced to join or financially support a union as a condition of employment. The Dallas Morning News reports that the name “right-to-work” was the brainchild of William Ruggles, one of the newspaper’s editorial writers, who coined it in a 1941 when he wrote: The greatest crisis that confronts the nation today is the domestic issue of the right to work as a member of a labor union, if the individual wishes, or without membership in a union if he so elects. Proponents took up the phrase in a push for a “Right-to-Work Amendment” to the Constitution. That idea hasn't yet taken off, but 22 states—Indiana looks likely to become the 23rd—now have laws that allow employees to opt out of paying any dues or fees to unions. But here's the wrinkle. Federal labor law requires unions to represent every employee in classifications covered by their union contracts. Employees who opt out under “right to work” provisions are still entitled to the benefits won through collective bargaining. Says an AFL-CIO fact sheet (.pdf) on the issue: If a worker who is represented by a union and doesn't pay dues is fired illegally, the union must use the dues paying employee's money to defend the non-payer. Such representation may require going through a costly, time-consuming legal process…. Unions cannot refuse to pay the costs of arbitrating a grievance simply because it involves a nonmember. That's what I mean by right to freeload. Non right-to-freeload states, like Illinois, allow employees to opt out of union membership for any reason, including objection to the union's political activities, but allow unions to collect so-called “fair-share” payments that cover only the costs associated with contract negotiations and enforcement. The clear intent and effect of right-to-work/freeload laws is to weaken labor unions. And while I don't think that's a good idea in general, that can be a debate for another time. Now I'd just like to call for more neutrality in terminology—for news organizations to stop blandly and without qualification using the very positive sounding label “right-to-work.” ...</blockquote> JamesMarsh on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15918 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 12:45:17 +0000 JamesMarsh 15918@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <a href="http://biggovernment.com/eagtv/2012/02/02/supreme-court-case-could-threaten-big-labors-ability-to-deduct-from-public-employee-paychecks/">Interesting article on union dues</a> I do not copy the article as I respect intellectual property and hope the publisher of the article continues to receive add revenue when people view the article. mrt on "Who's on first?" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/whos-on-first#post-15917 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:38:49 +0000 mrt 15917@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK3wMFiSq8U&feature=share" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK3wMFiSq8U&feature=share</a> anonymous on "Latest (Feb, 2012) water bill seems high" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/latest-feb-2012-water-bill-seems-high#post-15916 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:31:24 +0000 anonymous 15916@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ We should thank The Rahmster for lightening our wallets. DanielMancoff on "Clarion - Every Student Has a Story" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/clarion-every-student-has-a-story#post-15915 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 14:15:45 +0000 DanielMancoff 15915@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Hi, I am the sponsor of the Riverside Brookfield High School Clarion, RB's student newspaper. We thought you might be interested in a new interactive feature that went up on our site called "Every Student Has a Story." It can be found here: <a href="http://rbclarion.com/top-stories/2012/02/02/every-student-has-a-story/" rel="nofollow">http://rbclarion.com/top-stories/2012/02/02/every-student-has-a-story/</a> The idea was to have every Clarion reporter choose a student at random from RB's roster and interview them for a feature-length story. We launched with eight students represented with more to arrive shortly. Clarion is providing these links as service to forward our mission of informing the community about issues related to our high school. If you have any questions or comments related to the story, please either use the commenting forum available at our web site or contact the school administration directly. Dan Mancoff Clarion Sponsor mrt on "Latest (Feb, 2012) water bill seems high" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/latest-feb-2012-water-bill-seems-high#post-15914 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 13:17:05 +0000 mrt 15914@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Is it just me or did the water rates go up ? I just recvd my Feb 2012 water bill it seems extra high , especially during the winter, and either I have a toilet running ovetime, or there is some other culprit. chrisrobling on "Pensions" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/pensions/page/10#post-15913 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 12:37:35 +0000 chrisrobling 15913@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ "There is almost no choice." Ummm, yes there is -- stop the spending. Cap the taxes. End the madness. Traditionally, income taxes paid on way in, or way out, not both. Romney's double taxation is not two bites at income apple, one is income, other is capital gains. Obviously, the nibbling away continues after income -- or cap gains -- via (depending where one lives) real estate, sales, estate, etc. etc. But technically, those are not considered to be "income" tax. chrisrobling on "Landmark letter - Turnaround needed at RBHS" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/landmark-letter-turnaround-needed-at-rbhs/page/39#post-15912 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 11:24:23 +0000 chrisrobling 15912@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ YouTube video of RB 2011 graduation: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C3qTGnQVHA&list=PLB2E4D4D3C0ABE815&index=2&feature=plpp_video" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C3qTGnQVHA&list=PLB2E4D4D3C0ABE815&index=2&feature=plpp_video</a> enjoy. mr on "Pensions" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/pensions/page/10#post-15911 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 09:20:16 +0000 mr 15911@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Pensions of any type are not subject to taxes in the state of Illinois. They are subject to federal taxes. 401Ks are also considered pensions by the state, and withdrawals are not subject to state taxes. I believe that the pensions are subject to ordinary income taxes on the federal level. They are not considered investment income and capital gains. I believe that that also applies to 401K withdrawals. This has to do with the fact that the funds that were put aside to pay these pensions were never taxed in the first place. Remember that capital gains and dividends, etc. were already taxed before the money was distributed, where it will be taxed again. THe state of Illinois will undoubtedly move to tax pensions. There is almost no choice. As in New York, people with goverment pensions will move to avoid taxes on them. That will mean other people who continue to live in Illinois will pay the retirements of people who left. TS on "Pensions" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/pensions/page/9#post-15910 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:14:16 +0000 TS 15910@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Given how the governor and the other state Democratic leaders pander to the unions in this state, I expect higher taxes and no changes to the pension system. The Democrats have ruined my home state, it is beyond repair. Add Illinois to the likes of Greece, Ireland and the other Euro nations that are under water. This is what happens when you create a welfare state. I'm fed up with these leaders. The only option I have is to seek employment in another state. You are either a fool or living in a dream world if you think the incompetents in Springfield have any desire to fix the financial mess they've created. All they are interested in is being re-elected and they do that by buying the votes of the unions in Illinois. anonymous on "Pensions" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/pensions/page/9#post-15909 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 00:30:31 +0000 anonymous 15909@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Regarding Quinn---talk is cheap. Here's a grand idea for him--let's raise the state income tax. Again. I'll bet jobs will follow------the others which went to Indiana. mrt on "Pensions" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/pensions/page/9#post-15908 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 00:19:12 +0000 mrt 15908@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ at least quinn is TALKING about the need for pension reform. Now we need action. Our neighbor Judy Barr chimes in the article , too. .. <blockquote>Illinois governor urges pension, Medicaid changesBy Karen Pierog | Reuters – 6 hrs ago... . (Reuters) - Illinois Governor Pat Quinn on Wednesday said the state must make changes to its pension system and to Medicaid this year, while also insisting that spending cuts alone will not fix the state's budget. A financial watchdog group recently forecast that Illinois' pile of unpaid bills will quadruple to $35 billion in five years, while Moody's Investors Service cited inaction on pensions and unpaid bills last month when it cut the state's credit rating to A2, the lowest rating level among the states it rates. </blockquote> <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/illinois-governor-urges-pension-medicaid-changes-222242384.html" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/illinois-governor-urges-pension-medicaid-changes-222242384.html</a> quick tax question: is pension income subject to state and federal income tax under the normal schedules for ordinary income? Or does it vary by kind of pension - some types of pensions are so taxed and others are not ? chrisrobling on "Landmark letter - Turnaround needed at RBHS" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/landmark-letter-turnaround-needed-at-rbhs/page/39#post-15907 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:55:57 +0000 chrisrobling 15907@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ happy to agree with mrt on this one. thanks very much, holly and other co-sponsor. mrt on "Landmark letter - Turnaround needed at RBHS" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/landmark-letter-turnaround-needed-at-rbhs/page/39#post-15906 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:42:12 +0000 mrt 15906@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ THANK YOU , Holly - a very nice neighbor and friend in this community - and the other person, Mr Henle, for stepping up and giving our kids an opportunity for a math club. math rules! kids rule . They are both the 'way of the future'. rbhstaxpayer on "Landmark letter - Turnaround needed at RBHS" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/landmark-letter-turnaround-needed-at-rbhs/page/39#post-15905 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:08:15 +0000 rbhstaxpayer 15905@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Once the word went beyond the invisible picket line our kids got a sponsor for their math club. In fact they now have two sponsors. Thanks to all who stepped up for the kids, really. According to RBEA's Monti nothing could be done. Here is a Q & A from the Clarion re the union and clubs- Q: Other than wage concessions, is there anything else the union can do to help alleviate the school’s financial issues? A: Not really. Here's the December Tribune story - <a href="http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-12-21/news/ct-met-school-funding-standoff-20111222_1_school-math-teacher-club-cuts-school-year/2"> <a href="http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-12-21/news/ct-met-school-funding-standoff-20111222_1_school-math-teacher-club-cuts-school-year/2" rel="nofollow">http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-12-21/news/ct-met-school-funding-standoff-20111222_1_school-math-teacher-club-cuts-school-year/2</a> And today's good news in the Clarion - <a href="http://rbclarion.com/top-stories/2012/01/31/art-math-clubs-follow-the-road-to-reinstatement/" rel="nofollow">http://rbclarion.com/top-stories/2012/01/31/art-math-clubs-follow-the-road-to-reinstatement/</a></a><a href="http://rbclarion.com/top-stories/2012/01/31/art-math-clubs-follow-the-road-to-reinstatement/"></a> Who knows, maybe a true partnership "for the kids" will emerge. Seeking answers on "Landmark letter - Turnaround needed at RBHS" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/landmark-letter-turnaround-needed-at-rbhs/page/39#post-15904 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:50:41 +0000 Seeking answers 15904@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ The question to be answered is simple. Does our tax money go for education or for compensation? If for compensation, we have the perfect system in place. If for education, not so much. I'm just curious. Do some of the people who post here have any experience with the current economy? There seems to be this perception that if the teacher salaries are reduced, there will be a mass exodus of the highest paid teachers to other school districts. Now, is the reason that they are the highest paid teachers because they are the best in the industry? Or is it because they are the teachers with the longest service and have benefitted from a series of favorable contracts that have increased their salaries disproportionately? I would like to know the average age of these teachers. If they are in their fifties, what makes you think that other districts are going to be in a rush to hire a teacher who is going to retire in maybe 2-8 years (my experience in dealing with teachers is few, if any, actually work past the age of 58). It is an upside down world that students have to suffer so that teachers can keep their perks. In a business, when revenue goes down or sales are flat, employees don't get raises or bonuses. In fact, some businesses present their employees with the choice of reduction in salary or layoffs. Employees overwhelmingly vote for reduction in salary, since most of the time they don't announce who will be laid off before the vote. A contract may be a contract, but at a certain point it is not a suicide pact. The teachers and administration have to realize to keep this ship afloat, everybody has to give. Happens all the time in private industry. I have averaged a 13% loss in business over the course of this recession, and so subsequently have had to adapt to that. Why do the teachers feel that they are immune to the laws of ecomnomics? EricSundstrom on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15902 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:59:57 +0000 EricSundstrom 15902@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Over one million people signed the recall petitions. At least half from the rural areas of Wisconcin which usually are conservative voters. That is about one third of all the registered voters in Wisconsin. It is more than half of all the voters that turned out for the Wisconsin 2010 mid term elections. Crime no, buyers remorse yes. Chris if it walks and quacks like a duck... its a duck. Walker is a toady to corpratists, and at their bidding is attempting to bust public unions.(Please remember besides teachers he went after police and firemen too). It will be interesting to see where from and how much money is spent on this recall election. My guess will be the " friends etc " of Walker will out spend who ever runs against him by a factor of 3 to 1 mr on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15901 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:00:29 +0000 mr 15901@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ mrt: There are a lot of things that Obama and the Democrats are doing that they did not specifically campaign on. Specifically, now, they have what people think is a war against that Catholic Church. I personally am against any recall. They are expensive and a way to reverse elections - which is another type of crime against democracy. If the governor committred a Crime - than indict him - but other than that, wait until an election. mrt on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15900 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:12:41 +0000 mrt 15900@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <blockquote>walker announced this step in his budget message in january, 2011. </blockquote> <blockquote>"This is the civics lesson that the kids should take away from this mess - stand up, campaign on what you believe in and let the votes determine the outcome." how is this different from what governor walker did? </blockquote> On the campaign trail during 2010, he should have said , IF ELECTED , I WILL PUT FORWARD a PROPOSAL TO REMOVE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING....We would get as a state A B C benefits...etc etc THe people of Wi would have better known what they were getting and, if Walker were elected, teh people would not have been surprised that he did it. In fact, people , pro and con, would have been surprised that he did NOT do this. This initiative was not a proposal that came along from the uncertain chaos of life that comes unpredictably once in office, but something that needed to be well thought out ahead of time and therefore was certainly available to be said during the campaign trail. Plus, it was not a smaller more trivial item that understandably cannot be iterated during the campaign, but a significant sea change type - especially in that state. Even tho this is a Wisconsin thread, I am sure that Obama campaigned on delivering health care (reform), and he did deliver it. That Obama delvered what people call Obamacare should make no one surprised. It wasn't as comprehensive as I would have liked , but certain key elements such as making it illegal to exclude people for sick insurance if you are already sick he did deliver ( as I understand this probably too complex legislation). Using this as an example since this is a Wi thread: but I just heard from Bruce Dumon't beyond the beltway show - which show, folks , ourfine resident poster chrisrobling is on from time to time on sunday night on 890 am - that Romney would veto the Dream act. Wow. <a href="http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2012/jan/29/dream-act-why-would-mitt-romney-veto-it/">There goes the hispanic vote for him</a>. For one who has been charged with flipflopping, that takes some guts. Maybe he was already ceding this vote to the dems and currying the (southern) conservatives, but anyway, if Romney gets elected , no one should be surprised that he would veto the Dream act. chrisrobling on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15899 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 07:54:15 +0000 chrisrobling 15899@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ ummm, mrt-- 1) walker announced this step in his budget message in january, 2011. he based that message on the state constitution, which has a economy clause. once announced, he pursued it. 2) the teachers are not gone, wisconsin's one of the few states that's hiring teachers. halelujah. the school districts are doing so with the savings from walker's reforms -- perhaps most importantly, the elimination of the teacher union-owned insurance company monopoly. 3) you say: "This is the civics lesson that the kids should take away from this mess - stand up, campaign on what you believe in and let the votes determine the outcome." how is this different from what governor walker did? how do you apply that to president obama enacting a health care mandate he campaigned against? the fact is we do not elect half-governors or half-presidents. the elections, mrt, are for keeps. i oppose obamacare, but i sure am not whining that the president signed something (the individual mandate) he once fought against. it happens every day. similarly, the wisconson legislature has plenary authority, and governor walker's job is not constrained but what press releases his campaign issued or didn't issue. here's a tip, when you vote this fall, for obama, or romney, or congressman gutierrez, or whomever, please expect them to confront and vote on issues not discussed in the campaign this fall, and about which you have know idea ahead of time where they stand. please don't attack them the way you attack governor walker, they will only be doing their jobs. 4) and you say "we did not expect labor evisceration." if this is "evisceration," then why aren't you agitating for the old wisconsin program, that governor walker and the legislature ended, to be imposed at the federal level, where labor's rights are almost the same as what governor walker and the legislature enacted in the new program? there are not a lot of AFGE employees walking around eviscerated. all best, c mrt on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15898 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 03:58:08 +0000 mrt 15898@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ a few quick responses initially: "Did they expect a February valentine from Walker?" But when was this valentine first delivered? For something this sensitive and complex, it its QUITE reasonable to assume that Walker and company - his money benefactors, but most importantly, his ADVISORS, people like the brothers Koch, would have huddled together and figured out the details of this budget repair bill, first as an approach, then detailed out in a bill well before February. For something so complex and significant , it had to be even before November. The Wi state election was in November. That HUGE huge protest seen in the video clip was on February 15. Do you think that this huge of a protest could have come about if they just heard about the news a day before? While, yes, everyone KNEW that Walker was not pro-labor based on his Nov campaign and his prior tenure as milwaukee county exec, (most/many) Wi constituencies did NOT know about this initiative, this DEGREE of anti labor policy, the removal of collective bargaining in a state that was the first to have this 50 some years ago. There are links to this effect earlier in this thread. There was at least one such report from a public union that was exempt from his collective bargaining removal, the state police. The latter, the uneven application of his bill over different groups, also shows the rank raw political opportunism of this initiative. Walker knew that the state police tend to track right, so he intended to curry their favor in return for support by exempting them. Those pesky commie teachers, however, are so LEFT, so they gone. It is as if he were singling them out for punishment for not voting for him. * On those reps that tried to stall the vote on the bill, considering the timing and exactly HOW Walker issued his initiative after the November election - how it even appeared that Walker was abusing his executive powers - those people felt there had to be something done to air this initiative out in the open somehow; it would be the least they could do for the citizent that they represent. I had read that they had lots of support from their constituencies in their method. But looking at what Walker did and how he did it and what those representatives did , it was probably not "Wisconsin's finest hour". Walker should have campaigned vigourously and clearly for this dramtic initiative during the election. It is big enough and clear enough for there to have been a healthy debate on it. This would have been the ideal way to do the, ahem, 'budget repair bill '. This is the civis lesson that the kids should take away from this mess - stand up, campaign on what you believe in and let the votes determine the outcome. Mr Walker was utilizing the old model of 'the man of action' to act first, seek permission later - sometimes phrased, 'better to ask forgiveness than to seek permission'. Considering the strategic significance of this initiative and the magnitude of detail needed to do this , it is almost certain that he had advisorial assistance from people used to such models of behavior, people like Der Brüder Koch, people whose success in acquiring phenomenal personal wealth is not grounded in the finer points of American governmental process - and this is one reason it is important where Walker gets his dollars and his strategic advice. The advice probably went something like this - just do this measure now. WOrse case there would be an attempt at a recall ; to accomplish a recall, there would need to be tremendous energy , planning and logistics to pull off getting over a half million signatures; but even if this were pulled off, the opposition will have to field a candidate on short notice, and most importantly, the horse will be out of the barn and people will have had a a chance to see (the benefits of) our initiative. Scott, ask forgiveness, not permission. That might be how you get gazillion dollars in the private sector, but it is not how US representational government operates: Back to Chris's point on process, asking permission from the constituencies for which the representatives are proxies is essential. This is done - on SIGNIFICANT issues, as this one certainly is - during campaigns. Else, it smells of an abuse of power backed by people with some overarching agenda - in this case, to kill labor - people like the Koch brothers from Manhattan, and not necessarily from the people Walker is representing from the state of Wi. On this initiative... not merely "a reform of labor abuses" Removing collective bargaining is not merely "a reform of labor abuses", but a wholesale evisceration of labor itself on the most important item it has - to be able to represent many workers (vs each worker having to try to represent his or herself to management). It would make unions, as Stewart said, "social clubs with tshirts". From Walker's past and what he said on the campaign leading up to the election in November, we might have expected some labor 'reform', but we did not expect labor evisceration. chrisrobling on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15897 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:58:10 +0000 chrisrobling 15897@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <a href="http://www.thehispanicconservative.com/Scott-Walker/scott-walkers-longstanding-history-with-labor.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.thehispanicconservative.com/Scott-Walker/scott-walkers-longstanding-history-with-labor.html</a> Hi MRT -- Agree it was more than far-left extremists. It was the pretty much the broad swath of the Wisconsin Democratic coalition. No problem. But it wasn't enough. See above a couple of posts. Graph two: As long as you treat some goofy future Gopper tactic with the magnanimity that infuses your depiction of your political proxies scampering cowardly from their sworn duty to evade legal process in another state, then, great stuff! Kids might internalize from this a corrosive level of elasticity to duty in the service of ideology, but hey, let the bad times roll! Lest that irony go misunderstood, in fact, it was an outrageous abdication of a public trust. Ordered liberty requires process. Process means, among other things, sequence and deadlines. Our American system's time for the Leftie Legislators to make their argument about the policy, raise consciousness, excite opposition, all that you mention they were doing in their hotel rooms in Chicago... was during the fall 2010 campaign. They did or they didn't, it does not much matter. What matters -- and what's incontrovertible -- is that the public employee union-supported Democrat legislators won minorities in both the Wisconsin House and Senate, and lost the Governorship. This is why unionists distort Walker’s campaign -- to justify their run-out. He –- and they -- made clear he would continue as Governor the reforms of public employee unions he championed as county executive. Most famously, the American Federation of Teachers-Wisconsin informed its members with the mailer, “Scott Walker… Straight Talker?”* Even a Gopper Blogger, “the Hispanic Conservative”, linked above, recites Walker’s longtime reforms of public employee union abuses. After the constant struggle between Walker the county executive and the county’s shop stewards, and Walker’s very specific July 22, 2010 statement on municipal choice of health plans, his siding with taxpayers over unions was clear for all to see. The objection is nonsense. Wisconsin voters knew which candidate belonged to labor – and that it was not Scott Walker. The fulminating unionists never acknowledge that Barack Obama did not campaign on the health care plan that now bears his name. In fact, he campaigned against individual mandates. Their view apparently is no specifics are needed if an officeholder wants their desired result, and triple-sealed specificity is an inalterable prerequisite if the intention is anything else. Such fatuousness is explicable only as a post-hoc justification for their tantrumic interruption in the public legislative process. What did the unions expect from Scott Walker in February 2011? A Valentine? Basically, like a forlorn freshman down the street from the capital at the University of Wisconsin, they had not done their political homework. The Democrats took an incomplete in a tough course. Their fraternity brothers, the unionists, cheered in sophomoronic solidarity, "Leave! That grizzly old professor's schedule is unfair! We'll cover for you!" The freshman grows up and learns that process, sequence and deadlines are real. But the Democrats' damage to trust in the process lingers as long as kids take it as a good example. Thus, i think, it became a factor in their string of do-over losses since. And if you choose not to see the historical record, fine, how then do you reconcile President Obama's endorsement of unionist outrage, when in fact Governor Walker's policy, in addition to the benefits described above, gives Wisconsin voters the same public employee union template they enjoy as federal taxpayers? What -- specifically -- justifies either that double standard, or the national left's imposition of more onerous practices on Wisconsinites than it does on Americans as a whole? Finally, goodness only knows what boogey-people you think are operating in the political sphere, so i politely ask, every time you curse the Koch brothers, do you think, "Oooooh. Someone might play George Soros back at me?" i frankly think Soros, an American, and the Koch brothers, two Americans, have the same right to be involved as we do. i happen to disagree with almost everything i have ever heard imputed to Soros, and i know very little about the Koch brothers, but happily acknowledge that the three of them have every right to participate. Secondly, unless i am missing something, such argumentation is merely ad hominem, as in me saying, "We shouldn't do that. Nancy Pelosi supports that idea, so it must be wrong.” It's invalid, and an argumentation equivalent to fleeing Madison to forestall a vote i know i will lose, as the unionists did. One might say it's beneath us and our forum. Do you agree? Cheers, c mrt on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15895 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 02:18:24 +0000 mrt 15895@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ My point above was that it was more than a few far left extremists that were protesting Walker's initiative. Those people who went to Illinois were trying to do some rope-a-dope on this executive who was disengenuous with the Wi voters by not specifically running on this (removing collective bargaining rights) as a plank on his platform only two months before. Along these lines, going away allowed more citizen awareness, discussion, analysis, and catching your breath on this extremeand significant move than what Walker-inc would have allowed in his and The Koch Brothers' designs. anonymous on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15894 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:43:46 +0000 anonymous 15894@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ mrt, oh do you mean the time when all of the wisconsin state reps who were democrats ran away from their state and hid in illinois because they didn't want to be accountable? is that what you are talking about? mrt on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/15#post-15893 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 18:06:44 +0000 mrt 15893@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ This is hardly 'lunatic fringe', or just don being don. It's been about a year ago that thousands of people swarmed the Wisconsin captital braving the cold and the winter of Wisconsin to protest from their gut Walker's moves to remove collective bargaining rigths from public empoyees of Wisconsin despite saying nary a word that he would do such explicit measures when he ran only two moinths prior to making these moves. As I understand it, there is going to be a recall election sometime this year. I read that something like 540,000 signatures are required to have a recall election, a tremendous number, because a recall election is a very expensive thing to hold - so it is not taken lightly and is not done without good cause. And , certainly, a few lunatics could not command a recall eleciton of the governor of a whole state. So apparently the protesters did get signatures. <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/wisconsin-recall-signatures-to-be-turned-in-today/">I heard 1 million signatures </a>were gotten. They are being vetted now. By removing rights that people should have, Walker has put salt on insult of everyday folk who already being screwed by the corporate and governmental powers that be. Beyond the specific content of what he did , he is almost a symbol of something bigger, which then galvinizes people on both sides. From what I read, he seems to like this and has even invited this larger than life person who would move the needle sort of like a Ronald Reagan or something like this. When they came out in the Wisconsin snow last year and when they signed all those petitions, the people were saying they'd had enough of this. Just to have a recall election (or even to be pretty close in those signatures) - regardless of the outcome - says so much about about the disffection of so many people. The video below from a UW-madison student's lens nicely captures the size, feeling, and spirit of what was going on then - and goes on now. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8-WzgSDvZQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8-WzgSDvZQ</a> anonymous on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/14#post-15892 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 18:05:57 +0000 anonymous 15892@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ If Don ran, I'd contribute to his campaign. That would be fun, wouldn't it? Watching all those ghosts come out of his closet! chrisrobling on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/14#post-15891 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:36:57 +0000 chrisrobling 15891@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Walker's golden, mr -- they said they'd beat the judge and they didn't they said they'd re-take the senate and they didn't. they filed thousands of phony signatures. school boards (except those w existing long-term contracts, viz. Mke and Kenosha) have saved a fortune -- it's public record. teachers -- esp arts and music teachers -- are being hired in wisconsin from the savings that resulted from breaking the union-owned insurance company monopoly -- it's public record. school boards and parents now have the reform's benefits, and the dead-enders are sad. don is one of them. don is don, but russ feingold is not running. and former senator feingold has told people to stop asking him to run. that says it all. maybe don could run. cheers, c rbhstaxpayer on "Landmark letter - Turnaround needed at RBHS" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/landmark-letter-turnaround-needed-at-rbhs/page/38#post-15890 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:35:33 +0000 rbhstaxpayer 15890@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Thanks Spatney, those guys might even be worse than the Baldermann, Herbts, Zeman and Scanlon group who gamed AP and other deals. I propose us parents, taxpayers and administrators roll up our sleaves and work together to clean up the mess. How bad can it be there are only 1450 great kids and 100 great teachers to support. Most of the drug dealers are no longer allowed on campus. It's not like we've got Morton's 8000 or LT's 3800 or OPRF's 3200. One building and solid alumni; let's get er done! anonymous on "CHOOSE MADE In AMERICA. COM" http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/choose-made-in-aerica-com/page/2#post-15889 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 16:01:23 +0000 anonymous 15889@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ I have an entrepreneurial friend out of state who is looking for a company to manufacture his latest venture in the US. He very much wants to manufacture it in the United States, but is having a difficult time in finding someone to take it on. No one seems to be interested in it. He may be forced to go oversees to accomplish it. Very sad. mr on "And so it begins..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/and-so-it-begins/page/77#post-15888 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:53:34 +0000 mr 15888@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Nice discussion about income inequality and poverty from the Washington Post! <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/angry-about-inequality-dont-blame-the-rich/2012/01/03/gIQA9S2fTQ_story_1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/angry-about-inequality-dont-blame-the-rich/2012/01/03/gIQA9S2fTQ_story_1.html</a> Many of the 1% are two income households. Maybe we should pass a law that says each household can have only one wage earner. That might help correct income inequality. mr on "On Wisconsin..." http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/on-wisconsin/page/14#post-15887 Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:08:30 +0000 mr 15887@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Perjury - isn't that lying under oath? Has this investigation gone that far yet?