http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ Discussion Forum for Riverside Illinois en Sun, 12 Feb 2012 00:46:59 +0000 http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif/page/2#post-3376 Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:23:42 +0000 spatny 3376@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>Well and good - but if people object to this TIF, or if they just think it needs more thought, or a concrete set of goals and a list of enumerated planned expenditures and a better explanation of how it will impact the schools and the CBD, then they need to come forth NOW and at the polls. There's another Board meeting tomorrow night, and the last workshop is Tuesday, and then there will certainly be a follow-up meeting, and we need to see more people get up out of their chairs and make the effort to slog through the slush to attend. Passive doesn't cut it. I saw people leave early the other morning who I knew didn't have a clue as to what this was about. How about a 5% turnout - one in every 20 - which would be about five times as many as are showing up now. That would carry a meassage. </p> http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif/page/2#post-3333 Sun, 25 Feb 2007 03:02:47 +0000 MikeT 3333@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>Fides et Internetatus ! </p> http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif/page/2#post-3322 Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:53:40 +0000 Elisa 3322@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>Mr. Spatny,<br /> Don't underestimate the people. There are plenty of people who are paying attention who can not go to meetings. I am trying to be involved and informed, and I have only been to 3 meetings/workshops this year. I was at a party tonight and there was plenty of attention that was being paid to the subject. I think people do care - they are out there (on both sides, I'm sure), but people are taking notice. Have faith in your fellow citizens! </p> http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif/page/2#post-3315 Sat, 24 Feb 2007 20:41:43 +0000 spatny 3315@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>I meant to say, at a website near you. </p> http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif/page/2#post-3314 Sat, 24 Feb 2007 20:41:06 +0000 spatny 3314@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>Catherine - problem is, so few of our "smart, educated" citizenry have not paid the least bit of attention to this process, or to local government. Many is the meeting i go to and see only the few stalwarts who want to hear, first hand, what is being articulated. Most, it is evident, feel as Rhett Butler: "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn." And they don't. So they could be fooled by the "In lieu of" preambles. Sort of - "Vote Yes for the TIF or we'll raise your taxes." That is patently what they have done this for. Then, if they get enough votes - more than 60, they'll say, "More people want the TIF than said no to the projects, so we have a mandate." Blah. Blah. Blah. Watch for it, at a theatre near you. </p> http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif/page/2#post-3226 Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:24:24 +0000 Catherine 3226@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>Yes Mike, you are correct about the order of the questions so far as I know so far. You must remember that 2 and 3 are NOT going to happen. They were thrown in as red herrings to scare people into voting for the TIF.</p> <p>The local govt would have to go to the people and justify their budget in order to get a property tax increase - something they have not done and are not prepared to do. That is why they want a TIF. </p> <p>Secondly, even though it makes no economic sense, they know the only reason the average villager supports development downtown is because they want retail (i.e. food.) They are trying to scare them into thinking they won't get that without a TIF.</p> <p>I wouldn't waste my time trying to take these questions seriously, therefore. For my own part, I am willing to call their bluff. I know Smith came up with the no retail idea, in my opinion in this same bad faith. But, if people recognize there is not enough money for village operations, they MUST take responsibility for WHERE it is going to come from. One can't simply object to everything. Why did they vote bonds off the table, for instance. Are we not about to pay off a bunch of bonds and to therefore realize a substantial freeing up of monies otherwise dedicated to interest payments. (I am no economist or financier.) </p> http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif#post-3223 Sat, 24 Feb 2007 08:42:41 +0000 KimJ 3223@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>"Also, I think they owe Kim and Holly rights to the phrase "To TIF or Not to TIF":<br /> <a href="http://www.riversideinfo.org/to-tif-or-not-to-tif/" rel="nofollow">http://www.riversideinfo.org/to-tif-or-not-to-tif/</a></p> <p>Chris,<br /> Although I thank you very much for the enthusiastic support about the quote<br /> "To TIF or not to TIF" I am sorry to inform you that Holly and I 'borrowed' that line from a flyer about TIF from DesPlaines. You can read the flyer at the link above. </p> <p>It is ironic that the villagers of that city fought against their TIF in the same manner we are (actually, they even made t-shirts, sorry guys!) They too went ahead and put together a referendum question. Their village board went ahead and enacted the TIF a few days before the election anyway, ouch. (Interject youtube image of someone getting a spanking here.) The people went ahead and overwhelmingly voted against the TIF anyway, as they planned. I guess what it comes down to for our trustees is, do they follow the will of the people, or does the easy cash stream trump what is right? "Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash." (Interject image of ...... sorry can't help myself) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEf7BMUlfbY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEf7BMUlfbY</a><br /> Sure hope classic rock does not lesson my argument in some cheap and trashy way! </p> http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif#post-3217 Sat, 24 Feb 2007 01:18:41 +0000 MikeT 3217@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>Catherine said--<br /> I don't mind it though. No, yes, yes.</p> <p>Pls remind me of the 1,2,3 questions that you are answering. My understanding is</p> <p>1 - want a tif?<br /> 2 - in leiu of a tif, want a tax incr for cbd improvements<br /> 3 - do you want the village to remove the street level constraint for commercial</p> <p>Me, I would go N N, and I 'll think more on 3.</p> <p>I don;t want the cbd 'improvements'. they seem to be for more high density infrastructure work including giving them money for a parking deck on Pine to accomodate said high density build outs. thus, I think that they are not improvements but the turning up of the poor frog who is already way too hot ("charming tranquil riverside").</p> <p><a href="http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic.php?id=58&#38;replies=4#post-593" rel="nofollow">http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic.php?id=58&#38;replies=4#post-593</a> </p> http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif#post-3215 Sat, 24 Feb 2007 00:55:41 +0000 Catherine 3215@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>The reason they are framing the question that way is to imply by parallel construction that raising property taxes or eliminating the retail requirement are the only alternatives. I don't mind it though. No, yes, yes. </p> http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/workshop-4-to-tif-or-not-to-tif#post-3158 Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:11:02 +0000 spatny 3158@http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/ <p>I didn't say you were. But you, like me, don't speak or act for the Village. W have a lot of people that ran for the Board or volunteer their time - a lot of it - to and (presumeably) for the good of the Village. They are the ones that have to say, "How Much?" and then "Go" or "No." They should do that and then get out of the way. If it works - they can take the credit. If it doesn't - they can blame you and me. That's OK. It would be better than starting this TIF "fiasco in the making" and have it last for years and years. </p>