What would "pay as you throw" save the village?
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2010 budget
(80 posts)-
Posted Monday Dec 28, 2009 18:00 #
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While this discussion is supposed to be about the 2010 budget, and savings to the village, I don't think the "pay as you throw" plan saves the village anything (I don't *think* they're subsidizing trash collection.) It just gets toward fairness. You should pay for the services you use, and it's not fair for others to pay for services they don't use. It's not fair that we all pay the same price for trash pickup, especially when some people use disproportionately more or less of the service.
Posted Monday Dec 28, 2009 20:11 # -
wouldn't the logical extension of that argument be the schools? why pay for the schools if you don't use them? seniors, singles, those without children, and especially those who send their kids to private schools come to mind.
Posted Monday Dec 28, 2009 21:18 # -
I think good school are beneficial to home values, and when people (with or without kids) purchase a house they look at schools as one of the things to ensure their house (and community) retains value. There's no need to extend the argument from "paying the full cost for your child's class at the Rec Dept" to "why pay for the schools if you don't have kids." So, no, that would not be a logical extension of the argument. Schools in Illinois are funded by property taxes; everyone knows it, and we're not going to change that with our discussion here.
Interestingly, this gets back to Kelly's point: "If you were considering moving to Riverside, or opening up a business, or buying a building like the Arcade - wouldn’t this financial instability cause you to look elsewhere?"
Posted Monday Dec 28, 2009 21:32 # -
Folks - everyone is spending more than they have. Feds, States, Counties, Cities, all municipal units. That's what happens in a recession - especially a near depression. Our situation and the means open to us to deal with it are not unusual. Anyone looking to buy a home will see the same situation in almost every municipality. This situation - on the local and national and even international level was being formed for a long time by spending and taxation - or lack thereof - policies. We fought long costly wars and cut taxes at the same time, financing them off the books with borrowed money. Locally we entered into employment and pension contracts and practices and paid for projects that, taken collectively, were a bridge too far. Retrenchment will be costly, painful, contentious, and some will not make it. But that isn't anything new. Read/study "This Time Is Different" and you'll get a longer view. Too much was spent, not enough saved. Bank reserves were too low and they got into too many high risk adventures because of the pressure to perform. Now those same banksters don't recognize that they were bailed out by the public and will soon be at it again if they aren't regulated. Credit Default Swaps are Insurance, not banking, and if you want to play with those the rules have to be at least as tough as for the insurance companies.
Countries can and do get through repeated bouts of debt and inflation, but rarely survive banking crisis. The free market is great for lots of things, but not so hot for letting Wall Street and the Banks regulate themselves. FYI, at the end of WW II the gross domestic debt of the U.S. reached more than 100% of GDP, and it took several decades to bring it down to a more normal 50% of GDP. In recorded history of Banking Crisis in all countries, real debt in the three years following the crisis has typically almost doubled. Banking failures are very problematic and amplify recessions, but they are not the only cause This stuff is pretty complicated. But it happens a lot more than you think It may take many, many years to correct fully, but it has always done so throughout history.
Stop taking as gospel the half-baked and outrageous lies that are shouted at us. Consider the source.
Posted Monday Dec 28, 2009 23:58 # -
About using, not using services & who pays....
Seems to me that they are in two camps.
1. There are the services one uses most everyday. Niceties that make modern living so wonderful...
water, gas, electric, trash pick up
With the exception of trash, all other services are charged by usage/volume.2. There are services that one uses due to a random circumstance in life, for either a short period of time, once, lots, or if lucky, as in the case of fire, never.
fire, police, ambulance, library, schoolRegarding Rec. Which camp does that fit in?
If it is in camp one, then one should pay for what one uses.
Why should one taxpayer subsidize anothers yoga class simply because they use the Rec Dept yoga class instead of the one at the Y? It is equally absurd to subsidize a family of tens trash, or water bill, I would think.If it is in camp two, then one should pay for its availability to everyone to use.
Why shouldn't a taxpayer subsidize anothers yoga class? They may have need for a yoga class in the future.So thusly, people that think that they should not pay for shared services they are not currently partaking in (like private school users,) would be against subsidies to Rec?
Is Rec a nicety that makes modern living wonderful?
or
Is Rec a mandatory necessity dealing w/ life/death/education?Posted Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 08:32 # -
Recreation is one thing that young families look for when looking to buy a house and settle in a town.
Families find Riverside and love the feel of it. They ask about taxes, then either accept it or rule us out and look at Brookfield, Berwyn, North Riverside, or further out. They look next at what the town offers for the higher tax rate and determine if it is worth it – I’d think they ask questions about a finite number of topics which probably include (not in order): safety, schools, retail (do you have a market, bakery, bank, salon, restaurant, gift shop, farmers market…) parks, transportation to the city, offerings available for their kids (rec/art center), green space, preservation, sense of history and community, financial stability of the town …..
If they decide we don’t offer much, they will look to LaGrange, Downers Grove, Oak Park, River Forest, Hinsdale, or Western Springs, where taxes are still high but the town has more to offer.
There are baseline items which serve two purposes – protecting home values by attracting new buyers, while ensuring a certain quality of life once you live here. These niceties make you want to stay.
The goal here is to prioritize these things and fund what we can. Is this discussion happening with our Village board? They don’t want to increase taxes. Got that. Is there a plan? What are they cutting? How about the Village Board conducts a study with the realtors in town - what impacts property values.
Posted Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 22:18 # -
For us, when we moved here, the most important factor was that it was 10 miles closer to the city, which meant that T should be able to (at least) tuck his kids into bed at night.
The second factor was that, at the time, Blythe was in the top 10 in the state, so we thusly assumed (and after a call to the D96 offices were assured that) all the schools in the district were excellent.
The third factor was the beauty of the natural areas, the landscaped views & vistas.I suppose others are savvier than us in asking their real estate agents for a Rec bulletin before the purchase of a lifetime. I don't remember our agent ever even mentioning there was a Rec dept. whatsoever, or how fantastic our CBD, or library is, or that there is a musuem, or Olmsted, or that we are a National Historic Landmark. I did get a xerox copy of a map of the village, which helped me get in and out while home shopping, which was most helpful. But that was it.
People that grew up here and move back don't do so because of the fabulous CBD or Rec dept, do they? There is something else about Riverside that is bringing them back. What is it?
We need to capitalize on that.Posted Wednesday Dec 30, 2009 01:19 # -
Kim J we are glad you found us here in Riverside. We come back for all sorts of reasons but now with the way things are goin not sure how long we can last.
Posted Wednesday Jan 6, 2010 17:17 # -
So many of our systems need an overhaul, from the IRS code on down. The State mandates things for us to do but gives no money. School systems like ours get little help outside property taxes. The County piles on with programs that are of little or no benefit. In these difficult times it doesn't matter if you are in Berwyn or Hinsdale, they are all having a hard time. Next (oops) this year, many small businesses and some large ones will fail. Commercial vacancies will start to explode around March 1st, and around June a lot of ARM OPTION mortgages will reset. We can expect higher unemployment and decreased public revenues. Many people will be scraping along, so we must try not to burden them with more taxes - yet we also don't want to add to the problem by firing people. It's a delicate balance, and I don't think anyone has a foolproof remedy. We should work togetherto try and keep things running as best we can, because things will get worse before they get better - and that's everywhere, not just here. So we need to be careful and husband our resources. Like families are putting things off, municipalities will have to as well. It may not sound great, but what else should we do?
Posted Wednesday Jan 6, 2010 19:18 #
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