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31. JohnM
    Member

    Catherine,

    I am in no way being disrespectful to Don. If he thinks I am, he can call me on it. It just gets a bit tiresome being lectured to as though we are all idiot children. Trust me--I understand the economic problems we're facing, as do you, as does everyone who posts here. My point was that this thread is just spitballing--nothing to do with what the Board has or has not done, just a wish list of what we'd like to see. Pleanty of room to discuss the grim realities in other threads.

    I'm of the view that competition can be good in the restaurant business. Unlike, say, a situation where a Home Depot opens up and undercuts a local hardware store, a diverse group of restaurants can help each other. I'd like to see a scenario where Riverside becomes kind of a dining destination. People come to eat at one place, see another place or two and come back the next week to try something else. THis scenario has benefited Forest Park and Edison Park--I think it could work here--perhaps on a smaller scale.

    And, just to show that I'm not only interested in tearing down, here's a suggestion, taking a page from your last suggestion and Kim and ChrisH's posts above....

    This weekend, two RB football players rang my doorbell, selling "Bulldog Cards." For $20, I got a card that fits in my wallet that gets me discounts at a number of local businesses. Alas, only a few were in RIverside. Still, it was a good deal, and I suspect that I will more than get my money's worth, as well as supporting my alma mater. Maybe Riverside businesses could be approached with a similar idea--a "Riverside Card" whereby residents (and non-residents, of course) could purchase a card that would entitle them to various discounts or freebies at our local merchants. Charge $20-$30 a card, make it valid for a year, and you've got some incentive for people to shop locally. The businesses won't feel much of a pinch, as they would make up in customers what they lose on a discount, and the money earned from the sale of the cards could be put into a "Business Fund" and spent only on projects that benefited businesses. I'd buy one--my family probably spends $100-$200 per month at local businesses, so even a 5% discount is not insignificant.

    Posted Wednesday Jun 24, 2009 10:55 #

32. chrisrobling
    Member

    Yet again I appreciate mention of planning -- this time JohnM's starting with some sort of vision for our community. We need a planning year some 20, 25 or 30 years hence.

    As for the CBD, I submit small points for lack of time.

    1. We must evolve in consonance with our nature

    2. Our nature is about as appealing as one may find in this smog- and congestion-choked world

    3. Our limited local population, ("market"), generally precludes us from attracting chains (Border's/Starbucks) to our CBD --- NOT that we want such establishments

    4. Our natural offering is the "lovable independent," viz. Riverside Foods, Grumpy's, Chew Chew, Jem Cafe, the great Irish store, Aunt Diana's (perhaps technically one of several, but it is decidedly not a national chain), the Bohemian Restaurant... etc.

    5. If Riverside becomes known as a destination experience -- based inevitably on communing with Olmsted and his genius, then our local population, plus lovable independents, may see additional support / use from afficianados who will visit

    6. This precept tends to support the idea above of a boat rental / river experience concession. Other possibilities -- only ideas -- include:

    a specialty book store on architecture, gardens, landscapes, design, etc.,

    perhaps a more regular tour offering (self-guided tours, headset and downloaded podcast tours, specific tours for specific interests) in conjunction with CAF and the archi-tourism packagers,

    quality restaurants as mentioned above,

    areas of retail concentration such as art, decorative arts, gardening, organic fabrics, etc.

    b and b's to create two-day or weekend stays

    7. None of the above are going to survive based on locally-originating patronage only. Each will require a cohort of high disposable income visitors who are drawn to Riverside for something unique and beguiling in a world gone strip mall or mega mall mad. All of these require a far more disciplined market and attribute analysis than what any of us can post here.

    We must be who and what we are and not try to be something we are not. We also have to see the economic realities as the determining factor for businesspeople, even with the proprietors of the lovable and quirky independents we seek. Who will invest in us? What can we do to attract them here? What have we shown them that convinces them we are serious about developing Riverside in a particular way that reinforces their investment?

    A comprehensive plan would come in handy . . .

    Posted Wednesday Jun 24, 2009 12:47 #

33. TomJacobs
    Member

    Thanks Chris, for stating the obvious. At least to me, your continued point about the need for comprehensive planning is right on.

    How about a new set of Saturday workshops in which an attempt is made at coalescing a vision for Riverside?

    Posted Wednesday Jun 24, 2009 13:20 #

34. CuriousResident
    Member

    The other business that chrisrobling mentions, that comes up off and on again, is a B&B.

    I just wanted to suggest that it would not require the "destination traffic" as a prerequisite, to be successful. It would obviously help, but I think it is a matter of scale (ie 4 rooms versus 10 or 20).

    I'll repeat my specific reason for supporting the idea of a B&B; as transplants, we often have company that would like to visit but not stay downtown Chicago. There are no good close by options (that we have found). We can typically host a couple in our guest room, but not more than that. I would expect there is a reasonable portion of Riversiders with the same issue.

    The other idea prompted by chrisrobling's post, that is not CBD oriented, but drawing interest to Riverside is "gardens". I'll create a separate post for this, but I could envision a community based effort to further everyone's understanding of their part/responsiblity in our "landscape identity". I know this has the danger of creating tensions, but if handled well, it could be a great way for everyone to "be part of the solution".

    Posted Wednesday Jun 24, 2009 13:51 #

35. chrisrobling
    Member

    thanks, tom.

    Posted Wednesday Jun 24, 2009 15:08 #

36. spatny
    Member

    I'll do just this one more and drop off - When you talk about things like a book store - do you realize how many people go to a Borders, look at books, right down the titles and buy them at 40% off from an online seller. A LOT! Or they request from the library. You need TRAFFIC VOLUME for a business like that, and the charm of Riverside, at least to me, is it's tranquil ambiance Same for hardware, meat markets, etc. I would wager that many of the residents in the north end do their shopping at Tony's or another chain outlet at N. Riv Mall - it's closer, the variety is larger, etc. Plus other stores close by. As regards restaurants in Forest Park, go over there some night about 10 or midnite and see if you want that kind of traffic/noise/etc. in downtown Riverside. Slamming doors, drunks fighting with their girlfriends and the like is not conducive to restful sleep.

    If we had 1-2 more restaurants and perhaps a bakery/patissiere it would be nice - but who will choose to invest in them. I would bet to build out a place in the VC you would need $400K or more - hardly a small investment, at least to me. I put almost $700K in one, but that was Fisherman's Wharf in SF and there was more traffic in one day then in a month here. A guy came after me and did a 10,000 sq. ft. Christmas Tree ornament store, then a mini brewery spent $2.5 mil in that space and went BK, and the only one that really made money there is what is there now - a Hooters! Scoma's (at the time the largest grossing restuarant in CA was right across he street, the Cannery next door, and it was still a tough way to make a buck.

    As for the B&B - the Arcade rooms above and a bar/restaurant below sounds like a project for the Arcade, and I will help in any way, but I think return on investment will be tough. That ends my thoughts on this subject.

    One thing more - any news on the train station coffee shop?

    Posted Wednesday Jun 24, 2009 15:57 #

37. JohnM
    Member

    Don,

    I think you're taking people's suggestions a little too far. First off, no one suggested a Borders. Chris suggested a speciality bookstore--in other words, a destination spot. I think that could succeed. By way of example, the Abraham Lincoln Book Shop has been located on Chicago Avenue between Orleans and Sedgwick for years and years. Now the neighborhood is fine, but 10-15 years ago, it wasn't so hot, sitting in the shadow of Cabrini Green. Still, the store survived and thrived, because it provides a specialty product that people will seek out. I don't want to get too carried away with this analogy, as there are obviously enormous differences between Chicago and Riverside. Still, if a small speciality book shop can survive next to one of the most notorious housing projects in the US, I think a specialty bookstore (perhaps run in conjunction with the Olmsted Society or a Landscape Architecture organization) could, I think, survive in Riverside.

    Second, I think you misinterpreted what I said about Forest Park. I'm not suggesting that we emulate Madison Street. What I am suggesting is that competition--and perhaps that's not the right word--can be good for restaurants. People will come for the Chew Chew, and maybe come back for the Bohemian Restaurant. Stick a Thai place and a pizza/Italian joint in the mix, and we might see a bump in visitors that benefits all the places. I also don't think any late night problems in FP are the result of people spilling out of the restaurants or boutiques--I think the fact that there are 7 or 8 bars on that strip, many of which cater to people under the age of 25, is a more likely source of any issues.

    Posted Thursday Jun 25, 2009 09:27 #

38. spatny
    Member

    San Francisco had.has an architectural bookstore that used to do a good business. Maybe there is room for one focused on planning and landscape architecture - I don't know. Step up and start one if you like.

    It's like this, some guy has the Veal Piccata and says, "I wish you had that everyday." So you put it in, and then if he and guys like him don't come in to get it, you have to make goulasch. Hard to do with books.

    BTW, a place I enjoy is Zupa on Ogden Avenue in Lyons. They have great veal soup.

    Posted Thursday Jun 25, 2009 16:38 #

39. HRCollins
    Member

    Don -

    If you are talking about the architectural bookstore that used to be in the Ghiradelli Square at west end of Fisherman's Wharf it moved across the bay to Berkeley. That was a great store. Went there every time I was in SF.

    Posted Thursday Jun 25, 2009 16:47 #

40. spatny
    Member

    I was referring to William Stout, on Montgomery just down from Pacific, at Gold Street.

    www.stoutbooks.com

    I had an office just around the corner and "the greatest apartment in the world" on telegraph Hill for about 15 years.

    Posted Thursday Jun 25, 2009 17:34 #

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