Spatny, I noticed in another thread that you stated how much we paid to Camiros; now I can't find it.
Can you state here how much we have paid to McKenna and Camiros, what for, and anything else you may have learned. Or did they give you those totals they promised you?
Thanks for your hard work on this.
Thanks, Mike. So this is what we know:
Camiros received $146,000 for B2 Zoning
Associated legal and engineering costs, if any, not yet known
Kane McKenna received $85K and climbing, for TIF
Associated legal and engineering costs, if any, not yet known
What are the other vendors involved; anybody know? I've seen other names mentioned here.
For the three projects it is certain to be above $250,000., and possibly $350,000. if legal, admin and engineering is included. That is my estimate from numbers I've received so far. It turned out they don't use an abacus but do have a computer with vendor numbers, so it wasn't really so hard to get a list of checks paid to a certain vendor. Much ado about nothing.
Since we now know that each person or company that does business with the village has a vendor number, and we know the Village Manager and her staff know the names of the vendors (legal, engineering, etc.) they used on each project, how much time and effort would it have taken to simply write down those names (all they could rmemberan yway) on a sheet of paper and hand it to the Finance Director and ask him to make a printout of all payments to those vendors? I bet it would have been a lot faster, more complete and accurate to do that then to play these stupid charades and concoct these bogus letters about "we don't have those records" or "we can't give you that information because it elrates to taxes" or some other excuse. When people go to lengths to deny these requests on spurious grounds one has to wonder whY?
Let me ask a naive question:
Does there exist somewhere a complete accounting of every penny coming in to the Village and every penny spent, done at least yearly?
Are there state statutes that dictate the level and frequency of such accounting for local municipalities?
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that would be two naive questions.
.
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EDIT: after seeing spatny's post below, I also want to state: just want a free flow of information. I am not charging any wrongdoing. The 21st century should be a new century of increased freedom and of a freer flow of information. HTML will make us free. Let's use it.
I mean (I don't want to appear blasphemous)-- let's post the accounting of village monies on the village website. If the people think we need the money, they'll vote for it. Over time, and in measures both small and large, we want to get FURTHER away from the Pharoahs, Kings, and Big Brother. We are setting the ground, providing the model, for our kids, who are up next to bat.
Let me say this plainly. I do not think or aledge that any of the Village's money has been stolen, embezzled, etc. What I am saying is the delineation of the CBD (sic) and the development of the B2 Zoning Code started us down a slippery slope. It opened the way for inapp[ropriate development. The granting of the VC variance(s) - particulary allowing the fourth story and the entire bulk calculation, setback, parking buy-out provision, etc. was a grave disservice for which we will suffer the death of a thousand cuts every time some property owner there wants to sell. Having done what they did, what single CBD property owner can the Board identify that will not think his property can also have a four story structure - and be willing to go to court to prove it? This Board set the worst possible precedent the first chance they goy, and for that they should all be asked to go. But that won't happen.
Now, if someone or several someones helps create a building - by selling them the absolute keystone piece of Village property at a rediculously low price, or enables them to buy out of the parking provision for a figure far lower than it will cost to provide the parking, they may be guilty of faulty judgement, but until they take the case of scotch, the trip to Hawaii or the sack of doubloons they haven't broken any law. If they do any of those things, then they have. If they have a brothert-in-law that sells insurance to the developer, or if a rlative makes a commission selling it, I just don't know. I guess that would depend on if it was a quid=pro-qou arrangement - well I don't even want to go into it because I am not a lawyer and don't have any expertise in the nuance of the law. I know what a lot of people think: If you have a code that limits to a certain height that equates to three stories and x number of condos, and someone grants a variance that allows you to build $6 million more on the same property, you wonder why this variance is being given. If the case is made because we need more units, more EAV and hence more taxes for the Village well that is probably sustainable. Bad taste, a poor choice, but perhaps valid. I don't know anyone that has made any allegation beyond wondering what's going down.
We seem to have a problem with telling the public how much is spent on something, when it is a simple task to generate and make available the numbers. We seem to have a problem when people meet and draw up a resolution describing a willingness to help, financially, another project and then when questioned claim it is completely non-binding, meaningless, essentially not enforceable. Then why do it? How much did we spend on the legal cost of that if it is not worth the paper it is written on, and of no use to the developer? Why do these same people say "I would never use Eminent Domain" and wonder when people don't believe them? Why the little charade about "tying the Village Manger's hands" when some Trustees declined to authorize more dough for the current favorite consultant? And why does the Board even entertain thse stupid restrictions on free and open dialogue with the residents? If they didn't start this - the CBD designation, the B2 zoning, the TOD and TIF, and put forth a lot of propaganda with little substance to back it, they wouldn't be facing so many upset residents. Why they feel they need to concoct this elaborate and fololish set of regulations just to stymie egnative feedback to the actions they initiated is beyond me. They seem absolutely paranoid. They must understand, they will not escape the stigma attached to what they have done - but they have no one but themselves to blame. Is it illegal to do this? The Village attorney has probably told them no, you can do it. If they do, there will be complaints to the Illinois Attorney General's office, and they will incur more expense in dealing with that - and i bet they will lose. But tht's all down the road. Riverside isn't Belarus, and our esteemed President isn't some petty dictator. He's a nice guy that probably wants to do right as he sees it, and is probably dumbfounded that what he started with good intentions is so disliked by so many.
But we have a system. We had a vote on the tunnel. It was soundly defeated. Fini. But no, I still see it kicking around as a possibility. They propose a TIF, but when squawk and complain about the effect on the schools we are treated to all kinds of drision but no hard numbers. Now, after spending over $80,000 with the consultants for this fiasco, and more on legal and engineering, presumeably there were numbers arrived at that were to be presented at an open meeting before the schoolboard. Now that is postponed until after the election. Someone is ill, but can't someone else point to the numbers or hand out the sheets? How can anyone vote for this TIF if they haven't seen the numbers? "Trust us," they say.
Trust who? The guys that gave the VC the variance? The guys that had the meeting with the Arcade developer? The people that appraised a resident's home for ED acquisition? The people that claimed they couldn't generate how much was paid to a single consultant or for a single project bcause they "don't keep numbers that way." Who should we trust? What is this, North Korea? TRust, but verify? That's what Reagan said to Gorby. It works in Riverside too. Anybody who wants to know any of the public's business has a right to the answer, in timely and accurate fashion. This TIF proposal is going down big time, and hopefully, this Board will exhibit the good sense not to vote to go ahead anyway. If they do, then the lawyers will take over for the consultants, and things will get worse before they get better. If they had any sense they'd dump this thing right now and not waste another dime on it, they'd invite input and comment at any time by any one and they'd start to do what they should have done in the first place, build concensus. Don't take your ball and go home - just top this nonsense and let's try and - as much as i dislike the building and deplore the process that brought it here - get a couple of viable businesses in so we don't have to deal with whining from the developer - that would be too much. Stop the TIF permanently. NOW.
spatny, great points.
one quick clarification, in case you were talking about the experience I had with my property in your sentence,
"The people that appraised a resident's home for ED acquisition?"
To be more precise: As I have already said in this space, these people did not appraise my home for an ED acquisition, I believe. It was to provide me with information that I requested in response to their desire to take my home as I was exercising due diligence. Maybe this is only a technical difference from your statement, but I wanted it clarified.
It DOES, however, have some of the 'smell' of ED since they did not remove the property from the demolition list after I requested it removed.
This brings me to a point I have made before: even if the Village renounced the use of eminent domain with TIF funds, as the EDC and others have recommended (but which the TIF consultant McKenna has explicitly NOT recommended), it is a form of coercion and stigmatization, and consequent injury to the property to continue to be on a hit list.
If the effective universe of buyers is only the Village, that is not exactly a free transaction. The value, therefore, would be determined by the magnanimity of the Village. The appraisal process that I have seen already gives us a glimpse, or a smell, of the ED process and the kind of values one can get in such a situation.
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