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31. MikeT
    Member

    good exchange.
    I hear two fears noted here...

    ...fear of extraordinary tax increases if no tif
    ...fear of eroding the charm of riverside if a tif - especially as currently constituted, not grounded in a community approved plan that makes riverside's 'charm' a primary asset to preserve and grounded in the new b2 zoning ordinances.

    TAX FEAR
    corbi328 - Are there hard projections of tax increases - the timeframe, the increase, the assumptions in the future if no tif is implemented? If so, please post these details and let's examine them. Who ever wants higher taxes? ANY increase is probably felt to be too high. maybe - depending on how high and the trade off.

    CHARM EROSION FEAR
    A multi story parking lot, the VC, and the Arcade are the cbd projects that I see lined up so far along with the new townhomes and delaplaine crossing further down on Burlington.

    Possible eroding charm?....doesn't the M-F morning rush seem pretty busy already? Cars lined up past Forest, for example? How do people think about Saturday on Burlington currently?

    And our current cbd is not even 100 pct utilized, nor are the planned new cbd mixed use developments, the VC and the Arcade, and the other projects on Burlington even online yet.

    I have heard different numbers of new residential units in the cbd in this forum. I have heard, I think, 75-100 new ones somewhere, and 200 new ones. How many more cars is that estimated to be in the cbd? 200 to 400 ?

    How does everyone think they will fit in the cbd? OK? or, if the cup is near the top already, would it overflow?

    The above is my impression. Has there been a car counting survey done? We know how big our streets are, and they cannot be changed. If we see how many cars are being pushed now, can we see how much more we can reasonably increase, if at all? Did the TOD do this? After all, it is a transit oriented document.

    TO be more precise, would it cause a significant increase in gridlock and 'busy ness'?

    We do not want to be Hinsdale, but we do not want to be Downers Grove, Lombard, Naperville etc, as far as gridlock goes. That is my experience when I go there.

    We want to increase business, but not busy-ness. THAT is our requirement.

    thanks for any info on the questions I posed.

    miket

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 01:17 #

32. KimJ
    Member

    Back to whose mandate it is to do due diligence in providing all the facts, I believe it would be in the interest of those who recommend the TIF to have concrete examples of all the villages in our area that have had TIF (as well as those that have not) and their actual numbers for EAV growth in their CBD's over the last 5 years/10 years/20 years. If it is the EDC's mandate to promote business in the business district, would not evaluation of healthy/unhealthy village CBD's EAV be part? If your commission does not know this information, as you are not mandated to do so, are you simply basing your opinion of TIF on the fact that everyone has one? My momma told me not to jump off the bridge just because everyone else did. That would be a great thread for you to start when you have the information.

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 07:40 #

33. spatny
    Member

    Corbi - When I came back here I looked around, renewed my acquaintanceship with the Village, saw that while many things were the same some things had changed. I tried to get involved in doing some things that I thought would make an improvement, and watched what was going on. I proposed the Chalkfest/Art Fair -albeit in a different context. I lamented the enormous number of signs I saw everywhere and went to the LAC and presented photos of how they would look better and less intrusive if the backs were painted dark green - and then offered to take on the task of painting them. I went to LAC, EDC and Board meetings - fair weather and foul, and still do. I donated some trees and started the Riverside Tree Bank with RBHS's Ecology Club, which raised over a thousand bucks from my class and will be perpetuated by other reunion classes (hopefully) and result in an important contribution to greening up the Village in the future. I purchased and donated books to the Library. I went to Oak Park and studied how I thought Riverside could reach and attract visitors interested in F.L. Wright's homes - we have several of his best and most important ones here, and thanks to their owners they are really well worth visiting. I took that info and the conceptual work for a joint Oak Park-River Forest-Riverside brochure/map to the EDC twice - about 18 months ago and at the last meeting. (I hope something will come of it.) But I also became interested in how the Village operated and what was happening with "Development." Seeing the plans for the monster block I asked the Board on numerous occasions to adopt a rule that many, less aesthetically sensitive communities have adopted - that is, requiring developers who ask for variances to erect storey poles that will clearly show where a building will encroach on the zoning ordinance requirements and how big it will be. Why not require this? In the case of the VC the fourth floor variance provides them with more than $6 million in additional sales. Why, in your opinion, wouldn't they, and the Village Board, do this? I think the answer is crystal clear. If the residents had seen the true size and scale of this structure they would have forced the Board to scale it back. But the Board didn't act, and now we will have this over-large and - to some - very tawdry structure within our midst for the rest of our lives. I won't reiterate the other mistakes that were made on other projects, but now the other important building/development project is also in jeopardy. Because of that, and because of the piecemeal way that we learn about other interests and projects that the Board may have underway, I, like many others, are opposed to delivering a revenue stream like the TIF would supposedly generate to be used for other ill-considered and inept attempts to buck a nationwide trend - that is - the consolidation of retail into malls and shopping centers.

    Yesterday I went to the movies, drove over the Lyons Bridge and up Plainfield Road to the Quarry Cinema. There is a new retail mall going in right at Ogden across from P.J. Klems. At First Ave we have a new little mall with a Starbucks and a sandwich shop, and a new, larger Walgreens. These are all located on highly traveled streets just across from the Village. All the way out Ogden there are lots of businesses, and it isn't far to LaGrange, Trader Joe's, all those restaurants and stores. Down Mannheim there are lots and lots of strip malls, plenty of stores, car dealers, and superstores - Home Depot, Costco, Walmart, Sam's Club, and a gigantic new multi-level Menards. I have to ask, what kind of businesses do you think can come into Riverside and be successful. If you can identify them, I'll be happy to go with you and pitch them on all the Village has to offer. But I don't know who will have the desire to late anything past a Mom and Pop here. And I don't think you do either.

    If we have new monster blocks, retail with three floors above, do you honestly believe that the residents will shop there or at Menards.'s Wal Mart, etc. Do you envision little boutiques? Hand Made artisan shops? More antiques? Will those be patronized (enough) by the new "carless" train commuters we seem to be targeting to live in the CBD? How much traffic will those businesses have to draw in to the CBD to make a living? To me, the whole premise of expanding the base of retail stores is flawed and goes against everything that is happening around us. You can't liken Riverside to Highland Park, LaGrange, Hinsdale or Block 37. And because anybody looking for a new business location want lots of traffic and parking for the kind of rent money that the new buildings will ask, I believe we may end up with a bunch more empty stores.

    I like the idea of having the stores in town spruced up But we have a major landlord that hasn't shown any interest in doing this, and I don't think bad behaviour should be rewarded with public dollars, especially when there is no track record of success with this kind of project in this place That is why I feel that the TOD study, while it may be a blueprint for success as far as Metra is concerned, is not well conceived for Riverside. I believe we need more creative and less potentially damaging strategies. I look forward to seeing what comes of the recently announced new meetings - but I fear they will provide little that is new if they are be based on the TIF and run by those that support it. How do you feel?

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 08:49 #

34. TJS
    Member

    Mr. Spatny, very well said.

    Terry

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 08:57 #

35. ChrisHajer
    Member

    Mr. Spatny, have you read about the new Walmart Super Center going in where Reynolds Metals was, in McCook? Here is a link to the CenterPoint Properties site for the McCook Business Center:
    http://transfer.cntprop.com/availablespace2006/BusinessPark.aspx?KEY=16

    Here is their brochure about the site and their plans for all the space:
    http://tinyurl.com/yxuzkf

    From http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=23334

    Wal-Mart has plans for McCook parcel

    Wal-Mart aims to open a Supercenter by mid-2008 on a portion of the old McCook Metals site being redeveloped by Oak Brook's CenterPoint Properties. Wal-Mart recently bought about 20 acres from CenterPoint at First Avenue and 47th Street in McCook. Terms were not disclosed. A rep says Wal-Mart hopes to break ground this summer. [Bob Tita]

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 11:35 #

36. spatny
    Member

    Thanks for that info. That means there will be four of those fairly close by. Really, small retail is very tough. I was talking with Dave at Grumpy's and he says it's barely a living for him. I do wish we had a nice, small, good pizza place in town with a reasonable bar, where you could get a Pilsener for $4 or less (draught) and some open wine for less than $6 a glass - but that can't happen in high rent new construction.

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 12:17 #

37. ChrisHajer
    Member

    David is still driving that old brown and tan van, not a $90K Mercedes. Even with coffee at $2.60/20 ounces, it's barely a living? That sucks.

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 12:28 #

38. corbi328
    Member

    I'll post this in response to Mike T's request for more information regarding the financial ramifications of no TIF. Some of this information will become more public when the group commisioned to study the financial position of the Village is formed but I don't think it can hurt to share some tidbits now.

    At 12/31/06 the Village of Riverside had a general fund balance of approximately $4.9 million. The general fund balance essentially represents the Village's rainy day account or endowment that provides the cushion for us in the event that unexpected or catastrophic problems develop. By December 31, 2011, just five years from now, our general fund balance is projected to DROP BY APPROXIMATELY $1.8 million DOLLARS. Why does this happen? Simply put because our revenue growth rate is essentially half the rate of growth in our expenses. Our five year fund balance forecast shows that the Village will go from posting a modest $17,680 in annual operating income during fiscal 2007 to posting a series of escalating annual operating losses culminating with a loss of $669,000 in 2011. It's a five year forecast and therefore no data is available beyond 2011 but the rate of loss over the five year period is increasing conservatively at a rate of 35% per year. Extrapolate this rate forward and the numbers suggest the General Fund account will be posting an annual operating loss of approximately $1.2 million by 2013. Are these numbers registering with you folks????? At this rate it won't be long until our general fund balance is completely eroded which will have a negative effect on our credit rating (which raises our borrowing costs) and leaves us completely vulnerable in the event that unexpected problems arise (i.e emergency repairs, lawsuit etc..)Of course, the general fund will eventually be completely exhausted and then the village will be forced to seek a dramatic tax increase via referendum or cease to provide municipal services. How would you folks start feeling when the village does not have enough money to mow parks, remove snow from the streets, or maintain its current police force? Of course nobody would be willing to live without those services which means that the village would have to get a significant tax increase via referendum about once every five years if we are really careful. Now are folks starting to see how we could quickly find ourselves paying Hinsdale like real estate taxes if something is not done? This is not just "a bunch of hooey" as some uninformed posters have stated. Half the people who live in this town could no longer afford to live in Riverside if this scenario plays itself out. Luckily for us we have a very proactive Village Board who has identified this problem and is determined to do something about it instead of passing the buck. After much study they have concluded that a TIF is the best solution to our problems. Many in town agree but are open to alternatives if others can come up with a better solution. So once again I ask the question, if not a TIF then what? What this town needs now are problem solvers not obstructionists. We need practical people who are willing to work to find answers to this question because the status quo or doing nothing is unacceptable and will lead us down a path of severe financial hardship.

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 21:21 #

39. spatny
    Member

    Corbi - then I suggest you guys at EDC show what you can do by bringing in three new vibrant businesses immediately, and then producing the Wright brochure and getting it distributed and bringing in a clamoring crowd of people to patronize your new businesses. You have plenty of empty locations to work with - just do it. As far as I can see EDC hasn't done it in recent memory, and so is not fulfilling its mission. Now you ask for more money to work with. What company would keep backing fruitless efforts?(Except for GM) Knock 'em dead. Hit a home run.

    Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Well that's what this call for, the TIF sounds like. It's the old story - "Give us the money, we'll spruce the place up, give some dough to the landlords, and ..... what?" No answers. Give it to Kafka? Give it to Wexford? Turn the Arcade into a hotel? There are a lot of people who want to get the Village on a firm footing, but the CBD for a TIF and the TOD study are just so much BS. Take your ruler and your camera, go down to Harlem, and figure something out. If you do the CBD you have to bring build/remodel the stores, persuade the businesses that you can bring business where you haven't before, and then get the customers. Do this on Harlem and at least the traffic is there, going by all the time, watching to see when you will open. And you haven't crapped up Riverside. That's my idea - what's yours?

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 22:25 #

40. Catherine
    Member

    I await a more authoritative review of village finances as promised by trustee Smith, particulary in light of the fact that trustee Grace did not appear to agree with your numbers on the schools. I hope trustee Smith will soon post this to the village website, and the engineering study promised will also soon be posted there.

    This village needs problem solvers, not problem makers. Your remarks insulting the intelligence of those that disagree with you as uninformed and lacking your piercing insight is not helpful. Indeed, I got the distinct impression at the COW meeting that none of the board agreed with you.

    Posted Thursday Jan 11, 2007 22:32 #

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