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Monday May 7 setting the stage for a TIF; Village not listening to us

(24 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by MikeTomecek
  • Latest reply from Catherine
  1. MikeT
    Member

    The last time the Village Board publicly discussed the TIF on 4-23, they said, in a 6-1 Trustees survey of Trustees, that they wanted to see —˜what the affected voting bodies think'. NOW they are talking about a WHOLE TIF TIMETABLE and voting to give more money to KMA, the TIF consultant.

    WATCH. THE. MONEY. IT IS OUR MONEY !

    Note also the appointment of M Laube to the EDC commission, a commission that advises the town on economic development. His company is a listed on a TIF website as a professional support concern on TIFs. This further makes it look like they want to go with a TIF.

    http://www.illinois-tif.com/TIFpro.htm#qual Michael Laube, Presiden t Laube Companies

    Does THIS sound like they listened to the collective voice of the people when the people voted 80 pct to 20 pct not to have a TIF ? Looks like that they are setting the stage for a TIF.

    —¦Monday's Village board meeting agenda—¦(tomorrow)
    COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
    May 7, 2007, 7:30 p.m.
    Village Board of Trustees
    Township Room 4

    I. Call to Order
    A. Committee of the Whole for April 3, 2007
    III. Key Topics (see attachments)
    A. KMA Scope of Services & Timetable for TIF

    REGULAR MEETING
    Village Board of Trustees
    Township Room 4
    May 7, 2007, 7:30 p.m.

    I. Call to Order—¦
    IV. Presentation of Petitions, Communications, and Citizen Requests
    V. Approval of Consent Agenda:
    G. Appointment of Michael Laube To The Economic Development
    Commission
    —¦
    F. BUILDING, PLANNING, ZONING AND PRESERVATION (Trustee
    Candice Grace)
    1. Resolution Supporting Class L Designation Status For
    Arcade Building
    2. Resolution Authorizing The Village Manager To Accept A
    Letter Of Agreement With Kane McKenna And Associates
    For Additional TIF Services

    Posted Sunday May 6, 2007 12:11 #
  2. MikeT
    Member

    NOW CRACKS A NOBLE HEART OF GOLD...OF RIVERSIDE

    .
    the packets in the library for tonight's meeting say

    They will ask for about $35K for KMA and another $10-15K to follow for subsequent work.

    timetable
    Kick it off about 5/21 - and it would be adopted in Sept.

    The list of changes to the map etc. are not fully detailed in what is there.

    ..

    ..

    why don't they first say what they are going to do with the money before getting the money?

    At the 4-16 village meeting, trustee smith said that we should take our issue (on the TIF) to the Illinois State ASsembly....implying that they are only doing what the
    Assembly allows.

    Here is the answer to that:

    1st, We do not have to do this TIF, unlike a state MANDATED statute; the Village Board has decided to use this tool now over other tools BY ITS OWN DISCRETION, unlike someone getting a ticket for some state law violation. However, why do it now without a plan and after the majority of RIverside voting public said not to? +

    2nd, we probably do not even qualify for the tif. Some of the items that have been said are: we do not have a required comprehensive plan, we have development going in the immediate tif district area already. This Village Board might be getting us Villagers into big time lawsuits. Plus more important: big time waste of precious time and possible ruining our landscape.

    This is the height of irony that RIVERSIDE, ILLINOIS, a National Historic Landmark by virture of being one of the first PLANNED suburban communities is turning on this circular saw bulldozer of a tool without an updated comprehensive plan guiding us on what to do in the redeveleopment.

    AN OUTRAGE.

    +Consider these facts to help explain why: there seems to be a lack of objectivity in this decision. The EDC chairman, the commission that recommended a TIF, makes his living on doing TIFS. The Village trustee leading the charge for this is a partner in a law firm whose specialty is TIFs (says so on the Illinois TIF website), and the president of the village has a close family member in his household who has ties to the local real estate economy of Riverside. A TIF is about many things, and moving real estate is one of them.

    Posted Monday May 7, 2007 15:01 #
  3. spatny
    Member

    There will also be a resolution tonight to make ALL commi8ssion chairmen appointed by the Village President. Currently LAC and, I think, Rec, choose their own.

    Posted Monday May 7, 2007 16:45 #
  4. MikeT
    Member

    Courtesy of Mr Spatny, here are the pkts for tonight's village trustee meeting. Read and ...

    (4 mb each)

    http://host-files.com//show.php/890_may072007pkt1.pdf

    http://host-files.com//show.php/891_may072007pkt2.pdf

    Posted Monday May 7, 2007 17:20 #
  5. MikeT
    Member

    They set the stage for a TIF, but they wanted the actors who will be living with it for the next 4 years be the ones to vote on it.

    translation: 5-21 will be the vote to allocate the money for KMA. Unsure if that would also be the date for a vote to turn on the TIF clock.

    Ms GRACE and Mr SMITH
    Trustee Grace seemed to be the most reasonable tonight. She said she wanted the TIF very specific. She, alone, also said, I think, that she would want to add language in the TIF document to exclude Eminent Domain on TIF properties with TIF monies.

    Mr Smith went to the opposite side of the people and cast aspersions on the public, like they were some unruly mob. I believe it is the TIF that is unruly and the people are rational.

    I felt a lot of disrespect from the some of the board members to me personally the President and the General in particular. So I am not Martin Luther King in my speaking style. They said I spoke for 10 minutes when in reality it SEEMED to go on for 10 minutes. Some said they heard what I said before and that I was repeating myself. Tired of hearing about ED? Don't do a blanking TIF. ED is one of its functions. I will repeat this ad nauseum.

    I asked what the rules were for the exercise of ED in a TIF district. JW came back with a frustrated, how many times do we have to say this? I said, 'one more time, and put it in writing'. We can't, he said. Then we will keep asking. Let's switch houses, Generalissimo.

    When I was walking the town w/ flyers, more than a few have asked me about eminent domain. They do not know me from Adam, and that I am Mr ED, but that is the ONE thing that resonates with those people.

    Board: listen to Ms Grace and bake it in IF you are thinking of doing a TIF.

    .
    SEE THE BENE
    THey also said that they want to see the economic benefit to the TIF before voting on it. I wonder if they will factor in all this upfront freight that we have spent on it. 50 k more makes what, 150,000,000? seems like 150,000,000.

    .
    .
    SCHOOLS
    also, I heard JW say that the TIF would be stopped if the schools are against it.

    You hear that, schools?

    That has been my contention all along: that you have a considerable bully pulpit in this town. They probably believe a TIF would be good for them. Freeze their revenue for 23 yrs - good?

    I think I heard it said by the board that the schools were getting a lot of pressure. With 80-20 against it, I'd say the PUBLIC schools should be expecting a lot of pressure.

    Posted Tuesday May 8, 2007 00:24 #
  6. MikeT
    Member

    Some more notes on yesterday's 5-7 meeting:

    MORE GRACE
    She reiterated that residential s/b excluded from a cbd TIF. I find her statements interesting. I have asked on numerous occasions why residential is included, and all I have got back is 'infrastructure'. I see more deals or opportunites for developers. This is not a rumor, fear, misinformation or hearsay. Look no further than Olmsted COmmons as a development project that would take some of the residential areas encompassed in the current TIF boundaries.++ Doesn't Grace see what I see? On this, see Tim's circles on the inclusion of residential.+ I think the long and short of it is - you get more increment. W/O residential it might even be the case that it would not have sufficient benefit.

    SCANLON
    *last time out for the basso profondo with a scholarly demeaner and who usually attended and reported on the Riverside town activities. Beyond the avuncular style, he's the one who put on the record on 4-14 that they might need our home for parking for the VC (!). If I frequent and support the VC shop(s), if they ever come, I will then be enouraging my own displacement. I will continue to demand clarification on ED in the TIF. Even the EDC recommended the same. They should not look at me like I am some boring nut++++.

    *on the TIF, he said he could not in his conscience vote on something that he would not see thru. Mr Scanlon, I like this line of reasoning. NO ONE on the board will see this TIF through. Mr Spatny also brought this point up in his remarks, I believe.

    *he also said that the reason that the TIF seems not quite altogether is that it is an 'unfinished product' and is not ready to be put on the shelf - his words and metaphor.

    COMMENT: I challenge Mr Scanlon to how much more the TIF we see now will be changed or refined. On one of the more important divisive features of the TIF, the enabling of Eminent Domain, there has been no change.

    In my understanding of the CUSTOMARY activity of a TIF once the decision to turn on the TIF is made, only SLIGHT modifications are made. I can see this already. I was told by the Village manager that we do not even have enough money, now, to pay for my questions on Eminent Domain from KMA, the TIF consultant. I can see where this is heading. 'That is too expensive, or too burdensome to do'.

    So I have some skepticism on how much more significant finishing will be done beyond what is given to the jrb.

    QUICK COMMENT
    Doesn't it rub you all the wrong way, or doesn't it seem odd that we have to pay $150 an hour to get any material thing done for such an village-intimate and long running thing as a TIF? In advance of the Smith notes, in a sense, or I should say, in a cents, we are being ruled by consultants. So they disrespect the villagers and pay respects to the consultant. Reminds of that guy in Czarist Russia who had the ear of the royal family, Rasputin.+++++

    .
    SMITH
    He did bring up an interesting question about the pause. He wondered how much the pause cost the village. I assume he meant the cost of losing a year of increment, we lost on it. He also meant how much in extra re-do costs by the consultant did we incur, especially if we go forward with this re-do, and the TIF needs to be re-done if they are only a fraction serious about it (also see scanlon's comment above).

    WHAT WE NEED
    There was a comment by one of the trustees that said our cbd does not have what we need in Riverside. There was a comment by someone next to me in response, 'we have what we need'. Another 'public' asked have ever done thorough analyses on the dynamics of Riverside's cbd retail, potential and actual? He reminded us that TIFs DO NOT CREATE OPPORTUNITY.

    TIF COST SIGNIFICANT
    These comments from smith and scanlon taken together brings up to me the significant COST, or freight, there is to produce and carry this TIF. Tim on this forum has also pointed this out nicely.+ We have to spend, what, 8 million to get or 10 million?

    This is the kind of stuff the Riverside 'mob' (smith's pejorative, at least in spirit) sees BETTER THAN what the trustees see. That is the real purpose of advisory referenda: to help GUIDE - INFORM the representatives, not GOVERN in some kind of robotic manner.

    .
    At the end of the day we have:

    * villagers want to improve the CBD

    * villagers do not want to do it with a TIF

    So think of other alternatives, trustees, to do the cbd improvements. Please check your biases such as where you earn a living at the door.

    .
    .
    There was a comment by one of the trustees ' where is the money going to come from to make these cbd imoprovements.?'

    I scribbled on my paper and showed a fellow tif district member, 'the invisible hand'.+++

    TALK TO THE INVISIBLE HAND

    .
    .
    .
    .

    +
    http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic.php?id=217&page&replies=29#post-3437

    ++
    http://host-files.com//show.php/853_olmstedcommons.pdf

    +++
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand

    ++++
    that is another stress in the litany of '100 stresses': I have to be interesting, entertaining, and overall fun to listen to. NExt time I address them, I might start with a joke.

    Doctor: What seems to be the trouble?
    Patient: Doctor, I keep getting the feeling that nobody can hear what I say.
    Doctor: What seems to be the trouble?

    http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic.php?id=303&page&replies=2

    +++++
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Rasputin

    Our Very Own Consultant (VC for short)

    Posted Tuesday May 8, 2007 10:55 #
  7. EricSundstrom
    Member

    Mike the homes and commercial bldgs on Burlington (outside the B2 Zone)are rated a R1B1 zone if I remember corectly. Thus any developer could buy property from Ivins Funeral Home down to Cowley Rd and develope it under the R1B1 zoning codes. Large scale development is more of a possibilty to occurr there than in a strictly residential area ( meaning single family homes only). I agree with Ms.Grace that the R1B1 portions of the tiff should come off as I see actual developement there as unlikely, but ya never Know. In any event, after watching the meeting last night I still come away with the feeling that the main reason the anti tiff forces are against it is that somehow they think this will slow or stop developement if the tiff doesn't go through. It won't. The realestate market is coming out of a down cyle now. Once the market kicks up again you'll see developers checking out the CBD.

    Posted Tuesday May 8, 2007 16:34 #
  8. MikeT
    Member

    If they come on their own dime, and follow the rules, and the ordinances, I say, great. America. Free country. I hope the trustees do not vary too many ordinances, if any. If you are right, Eric, about development gonna come even without a TIF (and it has already as has been pointed out a lot, most recently by Catherine yesterday)
    , then this is a reason to hold off on that $50,000. Buy some trees. There's a start of a thread....

    also, what about on Pine- that is residential (R3) - why there? Also same question on Forest av. Is that the cbd ?

    Posted Tuesday May 8, 2007 16:45 #
  9. TJS
    Member

    Eric, do you not listen? No one is against development or improving the CBD. We are against the TIF for several reasons, one of the big ones is not providing developers hand outs. We see development has and will continue to occur. As long as the board doesn't cave in by issuing variance after variance, development is welcome. As long as the developers pay for their projects. The pro-TIF mantra is becoming wearisome. Let the market dictate, no need for the board to decide who should have a home and who should not.

    I'm sick and tired of the grief the board gives Mike. None of their homes is in the TIF. None of them had their property targeted to be replaced by a garage. How would they react if someone showed up at their front door and offered hundreds of thousands dollars below market value for their house. How would you react if the village came to you and said we're taking your business and we aren't going to give you market value. It is unfortunate that we have a village board that completely ignores the input of the citizens. The only way to have a voice in Riverside is to be a developer, a realtor, a lwayer or a consultant.

    Posted Tuesday May 8, 2007 16:56 #
  10. MikeT
    Member

    thanks for your concern, TJS, and
    I did not like how they cut me off in my attempt at getting answers - basically the same question since Halloween, then again on the 11-20 Monday night board meeting that lasted to 11:30 pm, then I asked the same question to KMA and the board again the next day at 11-21 public comment meeting, then in several emails to the VM/board in December and January and ...yes, I AM repeating myself; but I am repeating til I get a satisfactory answer.

    please clarify eminent domain within a TIF and what does it mean to be in the impact list vs not in it and get me outta there.

    To give them their due, recently They HAVE excluded the construction of a free standing parking deck with tif funds. That seems to be somewhat of a release of urgency (it was planned to be in year one or two of the tif plan previously). But they still have it in there and it is in that impact list. I guess we are waiting on rasputin to get back to us. :) What if we have a TIF and Mr McKenna goes on vacation? Who will watch us and how will we survive? Did anyone think about that?

    .
    FYI, Here is a discussion of the events around my house. It is true someone showed up at my door, but it was prompted by my inquiry, in an act of due diligence out of Art of War ("know your enemy"), which was prompted by the publication in the paper of the deck on the property during some design session that we were not a part of.

    http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic.php?id=174&page=3&replies=116#post-2829

    Posted Tuesday May 8, 2007 17:42 #

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