After reading this I begin to suppose that the referendum, if against TIF, will be regarded as unrepresentative of the population as a whole, despite what Judy Baar Topinka has said, and despite the fact that trustees regularly gain their seats with several hundred votes. And if it is for the TIF, it will of course be regarded as a reliable indication of popular support.
By the way, I did not see any of the business or home owners from the south side of Burlington at the meeting on Saturday.
Eric - I guess I don't understand what a "Community Center" is. Is this a card room for seniors? Another spot for pancake breakfasts? Function rooms? Recreation facilities? I thought all these things were being covered by the library, town hall, schools, etc. So many of these things are "exciting" to talk about and check off on a list, but then who puts them together, what are the details, and who pays for it? When you can't get 200 (2%) of the public to come to the workshops to discuss the future of what happens here I feel it would not have a large and vocal constituency. From my observation the residents (in general) don't look to me to be any more likely to support it than a Whole Foods. I think this idea, like a lot of others, should be thought through carefully and we should wait and see what the RB Fieldhouse offers, how the new Rec Dept. facilities go, etc. To me, all these "opportunity sites" identified in the TOD study lack and space for deliveries and employee parking, let alone the public. In a town where they now tell us we need to stop cars and have them towed to generate enough fees to pay $24K for a museum director it's assinine to talk about spending upwards of $3 mil each for a Community Center, a Museum, or a Boutique Hotel.
Catherine: Right you are. I was watching the Trustees carefully and they are obviously very skittish now about this whole subject. But as they are unopposed, and would be returned or elected if they got just a single vote, they will be sure to feel they have a "mandate from the people" to pursue this course.
I was at Papa Milano's today and spoke with the owner. It will be a nine story building, and probably start this summer, they think. I will put her in touch with Mr. Mlade at the VC - maybe we could get some good lasagne at least.
I am amazed in looking at these results that 21 of the people actually believe that eminent domained properties would be acquired at fair market value. Or perhaps they know that that does NOT mean real estate market value, which is actually the term of art for what one expects to get for one's home or property on the open market. 90% of the reason people fear eminent domain is the knowledge based on the prior behavior of governments of NOT buying at prices that would be achieved on the open market.
Spatny, the notices posted to the outside of the building say 98 stories. How silly to tear that lovely building down just for 9 stories of ugliness. Well, if true, better than 98. You can hardly see the sun shine in some of those blocks now.
Catherine - I am reporting what the restaurant owner told me, and I assume she knows. I don't think 98 stories is possible there. Corbi went to school across the street at Ogden, so perhaps they will name it after him. He would probably want more than nine stories, though. Just kidding you Corbi. Tonight's meeting was much better than the last one - more info and less wrangling although the differences were more pointedly expressed. Since it was election day in Chi I hope the lawyers in the crowd were able to restrain themselves and only voted once.
Daley hit another Home Run, but he may want to rethink it if he is going to have to listen to Dandi (with a star) Jackson in the City Council, y'all. Bet Natarus is going fishing, and Troutman will probably go to jail. Yes children, there is a Santa Claus. Darcel Beavers is going down but I'll bet her dad, "Dollar Bill" will have one of those nice $144,500 spots for her by the time she finishes her vacation. It'll be another thing for Tony Peraica to cope with. Win some, lose some.
I can't believe that 21 people believe that there would be fmv done here. Maybe they did not see the appraisal that the village garnered from a certified appraiser for my 3 story 4 br queen anne victorian house was just about the same price of a 1.5 br condo, and THAT is what the village is obliged to give to the eminent domained. Anything more is through the village's beneficence, or your own expensive bloody tooth and claw fight.
Imagine if there were some older more frail person or someone without a lot of means to fight for that value-- Hey! that's my neighbor and I!
I had a work emergency tonight and got to the wkshop late and was not able to deliver my remarks at this last wkshop. I was going to bring that appraisal mess up since they had released it.
I agree with diane k. - the people *still* *don't* *understand* the TIF yet.
We got more schooling to do.
mike
cnn
I would like to do a letter for the Landmark on the specifics of your situation, their appraisal, etc. People should understand exactly how this works. Is that OK with you?
Thanks, Don, but I'll handle it.
quick impressions--
Generally speaking, it would be helpful for everyone to know what the process is. It is a part of the TIF function / process that is being examined right now. Of course, my experience was not an actual ED proceeding, and it would be misleading to indicate that it was. I did not want to sell at that time and the village, I thought/think, did not want to buy unilaterally. This is before a tif was going on. They just drew a circle on my house, I believed in crayon, in the TOD study.
BUT it does provide some insight into the process of the municipality retaining a certified appraiser, getting SOME number, a number a property owner needs to take, officially. Anything else is up to you or your advocate, I guess. I got this info from the Village Manager.
The thing about ED, the transactor is COMPELLED to do the deal. He or she cannot just walk away from the whole thing if he or she does not want to do the deal. That is the egregious, un-american and bad part of it. It gets into dubious greater goods.
On the one hand, I kind of had no problem with the village's absurd number. I thought: they can say anything that they want. It is a free country. And I should simply be able to walk away, which I thought I did.
But one problem with the process is the fact that it put into public an absurd number associated with my property; now whatever is done on that property might be considered relative to that absurd number; it might even look like to the blanking hoi polloi looking in on The Truman -I mean- Tomecek Show that the final numbers are 'real good'; after all, they are 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 times that other number! In other words, my property has been further harmed. Talk about blanking up a free transaction! the whole town is in on it. "John, they shouldn't get that much. It is our money, after all." Or even if it were a private transaction, the goods are tainted now.
This is obviously why those executive session minutes are sealed when the village is discussing property acquisition. Since the value of real property is highly perceptual, the publicizing of any numbers, as well as a government's intentions on the property, can harm, devalue, or take away from, the property even though no real transaction even took place. In other words, it would not be fair, it would not be nice, to the property owner.
Wait a minute - they DID release my appraisal info. Thanks, Village. We are going to trust you people with 20 million dollars to do as you see fit without asking permission from the electorate? I hope all of you Villagers feel real warm and fuzzy and continue watching 24. Your small quaint charming friendly town of RIverside is now at the cusp of turning into friendless Riverside Inc; yeah, Also Known As Potterville, The TOWN FORMERLY KNOWN AS RIVERSIDE.
They just had an executive session on property acquisition at the last board meeting. Why would they release the details on my situation but not on the other one?
The fact that I am bringing this up now again in public is probably showing real bad judgement on my part.
It just further shows how blanked up this process makes people's lives. Is this a financing alternative or a ...technique out of Stalin's 5 year plan?
Mike - I raised that very point in a protracted conversation with a Trustee, who swore that they had no discussion about real estate at the last exec. session, even though it was on the agenda. Perhaps my mention of that earlier caused a change of heart, or perhaps they didn't want to do it now and be asked to release that too. I'm afraid my friend, you will have to be like Gormyko - Old Iron Parents - and just stay in the fight, sit there, keep asking for the info you want. It's a colossal waste of time and effort and surely uncomfortable for you, but they started this and now the thing to do is stop them. Paying for the TOD, then paying again for this TIF crap, and then hurting you with their stupid lack of planning, has all been wrong moves. Too bad this all didn't happen six months earlier - I think another slate could have beaten them handily.
Yes, precisely right MikeT. The sort of lowball appraisal they did on your home is what property owners can expect to receive if they are eminent domained. That is unless they have a vigorous eminent domain lawyer. As I said in another thread, a pro TIF woman I talked with at a recent meeting wanted her property eminent domained because of its present value on the open market. I advised her to have the village come out and tell her what they thought it was worth.
So there is ignorance and there is indifference.
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