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1. MikeSedivy
   Member

   MikeSedivy
   Member
   In the interest of fairness, would it be possible to put a link on this website's home page to the Village's TIF FAQ? I would title it something like "TIF Explanation, Process Updates, and Response to Concerns located on the official website of the Village of Riverside". The home page to this website appears to be clearly biased to the negative.

   Thank you.

   Posted: 2006-12-28 10:50:58 #
   admin
   Administrator
   That link title is too long, but I will forward that request to the owners of the website. I wonder if the village will reciprocate with a link to us on their website?

   edit: there is already a link on our home page, under External Links, entitled "Village of Riverside" which links directly to the TIF resources. I have forwarded your comment to the site owners though.

   Posted: 2006-12-28 10:56:37 #
   MikeSedivy
   Member
   There is no pride in ownership of the name of the link, so feel free to edit as deemed necessary. I applaud Kim and Holly for arranging for this site, however I don't believe it can be billed as an open and honest forum for debate when the home page contains nothing but negative links with the exception of the bottom-most link. Overall TIFs have been very successful or they wouldn't continue to be so prevalent. I think the record should show this and the debate should be whether or not it is appropriate for Riverside. I think as long as the debate on this website is civil, and I feel it is certainly headed in the right direction, I would recommend a link be added to the Village of Riverside website. I obviously have no control of the matter, however.

   Thank you.

   Posted: 2006-12-28 13:57:49 #
   admin
   Administrator
   Mike, I will be sure to let you know what happens.

   Posted: 2006-12-28 15:12:26 #
   filerjacobs
   Member
   Hey guys, Long Time, and Merry Christmas.

   I have managed to slip away a few times to check forum, but have been too lazy to deal with my inlaws euro keyboard. y & z are totally screwy, even the @ sign takes acrobatics.

   I will be certain to discuss MikeSedivys comments with Holly as soon as I get back. I do however disagree about the main page of our site. We obviously have a bias, we think the TIF is a terrible idea. If we thought the TIF was a good thing, we would never have bothered to create a site, or waste our time researching TIF, spending time away from our families and friends. But in all fairness, when one googles TIF, and we have been researching this extensively since we became aware of its existence back in June, we can honestly say there is not much positive information about them out there in general. Which is a big part about how we came to the conclusion that TIF is terrible for Riverside.

   As far as a link to 'positive TIF info' there is a link to the Village website that takes you directly to their TIF info page. (which is not at all negative) The TOD and Redevelopment Plans are on our site and the Village Survey is there as well.

   Perhaps the Village will have better luck finding positive TIF examples and put it on their site. We will continue to have a link from our homepage to theirs. We will continue to post all TIF information we think is relevent to Riversides TIF so that the residents have an opportunity to come to an educated decision having all the information available.

   Glad to see everyone on forum being productive and neighborly.

   Happy New Year and see you soon.

   Kim

   Posted: 2006-12-28 16:02:55 #
   Catherine
   Member
   I never came to this forum expecting proTIF positions. But I think we have enough members expressing them copiously. And, as stated, the Board and all that commission and or committee members that support them form a large team of TIF supporters. I think it would be nice if the village government put a link to our site on theirs, as we are part of the village and there are links to other village related sites.

   Posted: 2006-12-28 17:30:51 #

   Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 16:42 #

2. MikeSedivy
   Member

   While it may be obvious to most, I did want to point out the bias on this website and not burden the Administrator with what has become a thread. I give a lot of credit to Kim and Holly and their efforts, but please understand the agenda behind this website. I won't litter the posts with links describing successful TIFs, but let's remember the following: 1) TIFs have been around since 1952, 2)47 states utilize TIFs with 4 of the 7 leading states being Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, 3)389 Illinois municipalities in 77 counties administered 998 active TIFs as of January 1, 2006. I can't believe that any reasonable mind can conclude that "TIFs are bad", so I have suggested in other posts that we concentrate on creating a Redevelopment Plan that works.

   Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 16:51 #

3. MikeT
   Member

   For me, in my research so far, I see TIF is a tool, a part of the municipal tool box.

   And, as a tool, it should be used at the right time and the right place.

   The right time to consider the TIF is after a rigorous and comprehensive visioning and planning process is done that the whole community buys into. I submit that we have not done this yet. So THIS TIF proposal should be tabled/deferred, and other work should happen.

   As for the right place, in my investigation, I have seen that TIFs SEEM more successful...
   -- in places with big vehicular arteries that can bring people into and out of the TIF district;
   -- in areas where bigger commercial boxes can be dropped in; big space is present;
   -- where there is a high vacancy rate, with a minimum of family displacement; in other words, where there is real blight. The muni can do all the heavy lifting of acquiring properties from absent or deadbeat landlords, then bundle them together to offer to one or more developers.

   It seems to me that this is what the Legislature imagined as the proper use for tifs.

   For example, I went to Minneapolis recently and visited THEIR TIF district. It was formerly a big mall that had gone vacant (or dead :)), and was serviced by two interstates. The bowling alley we visited had 100s of lanes, was five stories high and was easily as big as our whole cbd. that was just one building in the complex. TIF good there definitely.

   I have seen such places mentioned as Oak Park, Lagrange, Oak Brook that have TIFs. They seem to have the big arteries to bring the customers in. They also do not have the height limitations that we have in Riverside. Look at the reaction suffered in our Village with the VC! Compare this to the heights of buildings on lake-harlem and lagr-ogden.

   So, since the tool metaphor has been uttered, maybe TIF is ...

   ...more like a circular saw for big stuff

   You pick the right tool for the project and the needs that you have. You would not use a circular saw when doing fine carpentry such as furniture work, for example.

   The results would be disastrous.

   What would be the right tool?

   Let's all think about it and see, first, WHAT we want to do.

   mike

   Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 17:26 #

4. ChrisHajer
   Member

   MikeS, I myself would not object to posts describing successful TIFs. Please share them here. Or better yet, start a new thread, since this one is about bias on the website.

   And I don't know that anyone really thinks TIF districts are bad per se: as it's been stated over and over, TIF is just a tool.

   Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 17:29 #

5. chrisrobling
   Member

   dear MikeS,
   since i am not anti-tif to begin with, and since i have begun to use this site to share my thoughts, i would like to point out that this site's great utility is that it is allowing people of various views to exchange them in a respectful setting. kim says she is anti-tif, and that is her right and i beleive that to be her sincerely held position, which i respect. but her labor has allowed me to propagate my two cents on the question, which i also appreciate. so, even if kim has her own opinion, i think it undervalues the contribution of her workand of this site to categorize it, let alone dismiss it as "agenda" driven, except if that agenda is described as public conversation.

   as to your comment on tif's over all, please take a few mninutes to read my posts, as i will read yours.

   tifs are neither good nor bad in themselves. they succeed when well-planned and fail when not. they are only a tool and like all other tools in the municipal tool box, they can be used well or not, and they can be planned well or not.

   the great opportunity we now have thanks to the trustees postponing action is to institute the appropriate level of planning so that our confidence level in riverside's next steps, whether they include a special tax district, a fight for home rule, a tif or anything else, a combination of these or none of these, will significantly increase relative to a shared vision for what riverside should be for the next 20 - 40years.

   and in that this forum, i think, will play a terrific part.

   Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 17:39 #

6. Catherine
   Member

   As I said, I came here expecting counter-arguments not otherwise forthcoming from the local government. Indeed, if I had not received one of the riversideinfo.org fliers, I would not have even known approval of the TIF was imminent. Perhaps this is because I have received one (1) bulletin from the Village in the last five (5) years.

   But I am glad to hear from all comers.

   Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 17:47 #

7. MikeT
   Member

   all-when addressing two mikes in the same thread, please try to say MikeS or MikeT.

   otherwise it kind of turns into an OpenMic forum.

   Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 18:00 #

8. MikeSedivy
   Member

   ChrisR - my comment was not meant to offend and was purely factual. I have seen this website referred to as "open", "honest", and "unbiased". I would say the Forum could be described that way because everyone who registers has access to it. To the casual observer, however, the Home Page is one-sided. I did commend Holly and Kim for their efforts.

   I have read your posts and think we are pretty much on the same page, while disagreeing slightly on the amount of planning necessary for a palatable Redevelopment Plan. I think there is a practical level of planning somewhere between where we are today and what you are proposing. I started a thread ("If Not TIF, then What" - and I unsuccesfully swore it would be the only thread I posted in) trying to identify other options besides a TIF. Holly pointed me toward the Main Street program which it sounds like you may be familiar with. I understand that there were significant barriers to moving forward with that program. Besides that, we have yet to identify any tools that may be more attractive than a TIF "with an appropriate Redevelopment Plan".

   Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 18:56 #

9. MikeT
   Member

   same with 'chris'. add name extension, please.

   added later
   a true IT professional - people's last names are 'extensions'.

   Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 19:36 #

10. RiversideResident
    Member

    MikeSedivy-

    1. Just because there are lots of TIFs around doesn't mean they are all successful. I don't think the history is long enough. When TIF was first envisioned, it was to help blighted communities. Today it is being used for something totally different

    2. Just because there's no better tool doesn't make TIF the right tool

    3. Please, share the good news on TIF with us

    Posted Thursday Dec 28, 2006 20:57 #

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