Riverside Info » About Riverside

The old days -

(20 posts)

Tags:

  1. KimJ
    Member

    I discovered this old thread, the topics of TIF are not really relevant any longer, but chrisrobling was right about RB's financials!

    There is one major difference about today's forum. It is that back then, everyone had a name, (except Curious Resident - an anonymous lifer!) Everyone was polite, we disagreed, shared info, hashed out info, and still took one another to task.

    The forums current user propensity to be anonymous seriously hinders any serious debate. It allows these important topics to wallow in the most base, vile, and useless form of communication.

    I challenge the anonymous to stop throwing rocks in the dark. Lets engage in useful dialogue.

    Should the anons not come out of the closet, I challenge the named to no longer address, answer, or debate people that are too afraid to own up and take responsibility for the opinions/facts? that they are sharing.

    http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic/district-208-race/page/5

    Posted Monday Oct 19, 2009 15:28 #
  2. CuriousResident
    Member

    Regardless the motivation, I'm surprised you think anonymous participation is not worth any of the possible negatives.

    The supreme court views it differently: Under our Constitution, anonymous pamphleteering is not a pernicious, fraudulent practice, but an honorable tradition of advocacy and of dissent. Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority.

    How about simply view all posts with the same basic respect? What are the words saying...not who said it and are they one of us. If a post is disrespectful, ignore them or counter them. Or if you happen to like something that came from an anon, you know, like you did "back in the old days" then respond freely.

    "Boo" to the stifling of free discourse~

    Posted Monday Oct 19, 2009 16:12 #
  3. KimJ
    Member

    Who is stifling free discourse?
    I have decided to discourse with real people.

    Talk amongst yourselves!
    I'll give you a topic. The romanesque church design was based on the roman basilica. Discuss.

    Posted Monday Oct 19, 2009 17:09 #
  4. CuriousResident
    Member

    Your choices are your choices, but it would behoove you and the forum if you'd recognize that mocking and goading people makes you no better than those you view as "wallowing in the most base, vile, and useless form of communication".

    Posted Tuesday Oct 20, 2009 07:34 #
  5. Kelly
    Member

    Who cares what people post under, are you just glad they post?

    Posted Tuesday Oct 20, 2009 13:31 #
  6. ChrisHajer
    Member

    I participate in several online forums, always under my name, and honestly on some forums it makes no difference to me that people post anonymously. If they're looking for tech support, it doesn't matter to me if they use their real name. However, with a forum such as this, where we're all neighbors, it matters to me whether people post under their real name, or if not real name, have at least associated their real name with their screen name at some point. That said, a post from someone posting anonymously holds less weight for me, especially if it's personal. I guess I just filter it out.

    CuriousResident asked "How about simply view all posts with the same basic respect?" - sorry, if someone is posting anonymously and does not wish to be identified, I am going to give their opinion less weight than someone posting under an identifiable name. There is no authority to an anonymous post.

    And respect is probably a poor word there, for me - I respect everyone's opinion, regardless of anonymity. However, I can't place equal weight on all posts, and posts made anonymously hold less weight for me. It's easy to skip right past them. If you won't sign your name to your words, why should I place any value on them?

    Posted Tuesday Oct 20, 2009 13:49 #
  7. chrisrobling
    Member

    It's true !!!

    Basilicas were Roman public assembly buildings, up to and including the cathedra, or chair, for the highest-ranking Roman official in attendance. They were used for social, civil and religious functions. By the time the Christians gained favor, it was natural to use them for liturgical worship, and that's how early middle age Christians blended the Roman basilica and the Christian church together. We ended up with the name, but in fact we are just borrowing it indefinitely.

    The chair -- cathedra -- became the place of honor for the local bishop, flanked as was the Roman civil chief by his attendants, in this case priests, deacons, archdeacons, etc. And thus was born the Cathedral. The basic basilica shape was twice the width in length, with a ceiling about width high, as were Christendom's earliest churches. Along the way the cruciform idea came up and the transepts started sneaking out from the body near the altar...

    Altars were originally tables, as in Roman days, when they'd be moved around for the purpose (basilica as multi-purpose room) not marble plinths, and none of the seats -- of which there were not many -- were either nailed down, so to speak, or pews. So liturgies were less formal -- in terms of here / there, stand up / kneel down, etc. Fr Josef Jungmann, SJ, the 20th century's greatest liturgical historian, figured all of this out, to the fascination of Pope John XXIII, and thus was born the Vatican II liturgical reforms.

    As it happens, Jungmann is not the hero in Rome he once was. There is now a revisionist movement that seeks to correct deficiencies it claims in his historical research or interpretation. Having studied Jungmann in college, it is inconceivable that he knowingly got anything wrong, but maybe historians are finding more documents now to which he did not have access.

    Anyway, generally speaking, this line is put forth by conservatives who think Vatican II reforms have gone too far. They may be right, though I would point out Jungamnn did not author the practical extrapolations on Vatican II documents with which they are so concerned. Some of this is done in support of a revival of the Tridentine, or Trent-based, liturgical form, from the Council(s) of Trent, at which Catholicism got itself together after Luther and strategized a counter-Reformation, without using that phrase.

    The Tridentine liturgy is also frequently -- and incorrectly -- identified with the "Latin Mass," since any Liturgy of Catholicism can be celebrated in Latin.

    Then-Cardinal Ratzinger was not the fan of Jungmann that Pope John XXIII was. He even wrote on Liturgy, which is fairly unusual for a Pope. As you can imagine, if a non-fan of Jungmann attains the papal cathedra, as it were, it makes the once-beloved Josef a target for bright kids earnestly hope one day to make Bishop. And thus the historical and theological reaction to Vatican II's reforms, and Jungmann by extension, gain weight.

    How much? To wrap this up, for the first time in 40 years a Tridentne Liturgy was celebrated in a chapel of the most famous basilica in the world -- St. Peters' -- just this last Sunday.

    So, Kim, it's a timely topic.

    As for RB mentioned above in this string, and my TIF position, which looks pretty solid even now, transported me to an earlier era. Thanks.

    Posted Tuesday Oct 20, 2009 13:55 #
  8. CuriousResident
    Member

    Chris, 4 things...

    1) I have no interest in public office - I am simply a curious resident that is trying to learn about the hot topics of our village and add to the discussion where I can. With the exception of a couple of poor reactions to KimJ's posts, I think you will find that all my posts are aimed positively. Feel free to delete/censor where not civil...no concerns from me about maintaining civility in the forum.

    2) I never change my alias - 1 account for as long as I've posted here. You learn who people "really are" by their words. My opinion, is that you either find value in my (or other anon) posts or you don't. I could care less what they use as an alias. If anyone (anon or not) is engaging in personal attacks, I would expect the admin to moderate. But if they are civil and you don't find any value in reading posts from anon, fine, don't read them. But don't go after them either

    Should the anons not come out of the closet, I challenge the named to no longer address, answer, or debate people that are too afraid to own up and take responsibility for the opinions/facts? that they are sharing.

    Kind of the pot calling the kettle black, no?

    3) Respect probably was a poor word choice - How about decorum? It is not about authority, but it is about the sad state of living in a suburban "fish bowl". People (by nature?) judge you ruthlessly and divisively. I'm not going to risk prejudice passed onto my family because someone did not like what I said...or so that folks on the forum can have a name associate to my posts. Politics and religion get people going and acting irrationally. If decorum were reliable, then there would be no need to be anon.

    4) Thanks for hosting this forum - I find it the most valuable of the current options about current issues in Riverside.

    If you want to switch this forum to a "verified name only", it is your prerogative and I'll stop participating, as I have no interest in participating in a formal forum.

    If you leave it open, then folks should stay focused on the topics and only worry about specific posters when they are aggressive/disruptive.

    Cheers~

    Posted Tuesday Oct 20, 2009 14:24 #
  9. KimJ
    Member

    chrisrobling,

    Have you read Pillars of the Earth by Follett?
    Brings one back to the sights, sounds, & smells! of building these magical places.

    By far my favorite cathedrals are
    York Minster - the very best gothic (not just Britain, but all of Europe!! IMO)
    I have fantastic b/w close ups of the grotesque ornament. Love It!
    Salisbury Cathedral is all goodness and light. The spire is beautiful in its simplicity, proportion.
    Duomo di S. Marco in Lucca is rich with heavy ornament. I especially love the campanile, it is harsh, almost militant in its approach.

    Basilicas are nice too!

    Posted Tuesday Oct 20, 2009 15:05 #
  10. Fred
    Member

    Chris you're a wild man. I mean it. Some time we'll have to get together over the Vulgate and a Bowdlerized version of Ovid and swap Jesuit stories. Now, back to reality. However the TIF was presented, it would have funneled 50% of the incremental tax receipts to the Village rather to taxing bodies outside of the Village/school districts. I do not find it obvious that the TIF was a bad idea. As time progresses it is looking better and better. Even Don Spatny is espousing elements of the inherent redistribution with his District concept. And yes, I am speaking ex Cathedra as I am now sitting down. Semper ubi sub ubi.

    Posted Tuesday Oct 20, 2009 15:24 #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.