I guess the more appropriate question I posed should have been: "CAN they discuss one question and then put different wording on the actual ballot?" There is a huge difference between what was on the agenda and having the final question being about "in lieu of" and "corporate property tax". What is the difference between "corporate property tax" and "property tax" anyhow?
Riverside Info » About Riverside
Village's Tax referendum question - did they LIE to us ?
(21 posts)-
Posted Sunday Feb 11, 2007 22:00 #
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After confirming from other people who were at that meeting that the phrase 'In Lieu of TIF' was in fact in the 'Do you want a property tax increase?' question in the packet they used to deliberate on AND that these other people also did NOT hear that phrase, I want to make the following comments :
...a) that the board in their agenda items in the special meeting on 2/05 did not specify the prefatory phrase in the 'raise property tax' question, 'In lieu of a TIF...?' even though it was in fact in their packet that they used for deliberations.
...b) that the board did not read back that phrase to the public in the room and at home watching on TV.
...c) in other words, the Board did not specify in their deliberations on 'In lieu of a TIF, do you want a property tax increase?' even though that is the language that is going on to the ballot.
There is a significant difference between what we saw deliberated on and what will go out on the ballot. It implies that there EITHER will be a property tax increase for certain cbd improvments OR a TIF. But there is no linkage between the two.
Even though there is no linkage (it is really about Village priorities and whether you want to do risky things that might materially change Riverside for the worse), I don't mind having the phrase on the ballot. It is their right - the rules say they could ask "Do you like my hat?" if they deliberated and voted on THAT question in public.
The thing that was wrong was that the public was not able to comment or debate in the meeting on that phrase or that implied linkage. They changed the public comment period to BEFORE their deliberations --BUT they did not specify the full text of the question in the agenda items for us to make a meaningful comment.
So I witnessed the infamous bad Riverside political machinery in action.
Because the Village would not bring the "TIF - yes or no?" question to a referendum, myself and lots of other people had to go out in the cold and take a lot of time and effort to get this question on the ballot, and then the Village board and admin play these kinds of games.
It disprespects us, the Village citizens, and the democratic process in Riverside.
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Can anyone post the state's attorney email address/phone number for everyone's information?When I stood up and fought for all of us to have cleaner air against a developer that wanted to build a coal tar incinerator in nearby McCook only a few miles from Riverside (you're welcome :) ), we all had the I EPA phone number to report violations.
http://www.riversideinfo.org/forum/topic.php?id=73&page=2&replies=49#post-1872
Posted Wednesday Feb 14, 2007 11:39 # -
I would hazard a guess that the idea, as it relates to ballot questions and/or "visions", is exactly what you allude to, Mike. Divide and conquer. Put up a series of questions that imply "if you don't vote for a TIF we'll have to do something that will bite you harder" or - "give us the TIF and we won't build stuff like Olmsted Commons - maybe just one or two VCs more." We're not going to pave all the Swan Pond, or put down astro-turf, and maybe we won't even build the amphitheater - now - but we do need to fix the wall and pave the path so it matches the Library Reading Circle, and while we're at it we'll fix the drainage and the wall, even though we have no idea on how the notching of the dam will effect the river and flooding/drainage. So you choose the lesser of two evils, not what's best. That's the way you get what you want. Don't answer the hard questions, just be everybody's pal and keep telling them how we all want the same thing. My friends, the devil's in the details.
Posted Wednesday Feb 14, 2007 13:17 # -
I would still like to know the difference between "property tax" and "corporate property tax".
"Property tax" to me means my property taxes will increase. Ouch!
"Corporate property tax" to me means that the corporations and/or businesses in town will see an increase in their property taxes - not me.
It seems to me that I would vote for corporate property taxes in lieu of a TIF (i.e. the property owners who have businesses as tenants are paying higher tax rates to support the infrastructure needs they have.) If that is wrong, somebody please correct me.
Posted Wednesday Feb 14, 2007 13:46 # -
Corbi - explain it to her, please.
Posted Wednesday Feb 14, 2007 14:22 # -
JUST SAY NO !
1. NO
2. NO
3. NO.
.
.
miket
I am not an obscurantist; just trying to simplify the ballot mess. Look at my other posts. I am tryin', boss!Posted Wednesday Feb 14, 2007 14:24 # -
I know MDS said above that he now believes that "corporate" refers to a portion of our regular old run-of-the-mill tax bill, but every time I google "corporate property tax" I find a reference to businesses or industry. I can not, however, find any actual definition, which is why I'm asking. I am not trying to be obtuse, but if the property owners (like Kafka and the VC people and the Arcade people - someday) are footing the bill for their own needs, then why would I oppose that? Is there something I don't know?
Oh, and I would assume that the benefit they would get is our increased spending in their businesses - so it's not like I want to stick it to them!
Posted Wednesday Feb 14, 2007 14:37 # -
I wonder if "corporate property tax rate" refers to the village's tax levy on properties in the village, and the "corporation" is the village? There are a lot of smart people here, and I hope one of them soon defines what this means.
For example, Riverside was incorporated in 1875. So, is the Village of Riverside the corporation?
I found this on the Village of Aurora website regarding their 2006 budget (where they specifically mentioned "corporate tax rate"):
(caution, the Aurora budget PDF is 639 pages and 7MB, if you click the picture)Also, I found this 2006 ILLINOIS PROPERTY TAX RATE AND LEVY MANUAL on the State of Illinois site:
http://www.commerce.state.il.us/NR/rdonlyres/983E76B4-63D7-426C-894A-5B23094CA04C/0/TaxRateManual2006.pdfFrom the document:
The purpose of the Property Tax Rate and Levy Manual is to help local officials [of non-home rule municipalities] realize available sources of revenue which may be used to finance their respective unit of government's services.
So, it appears that "corporate" appears to refer the the village.
With as complete as that Illinois Property Tax Rate manual appears to be, I noted a few missing taxes:
- Puffy director pants tax
- Not wearing puffy pants tax
- $1000 leaving town tax
Posted Thursday Feb 15, 2007 02:14 # -
This is my point exactly! Chris is trying to figure out what a TERM that is in a question that will appear on the ballot means. Not only was the term, 'CORPORATE TAX' not explored or vetted in front of the public at that meeting, it was not even MENTIONED in front of us in the read back.
Posted Thursday Feb 15, 2007 09:24 # -
It would be nice to check the Village of Riverside board meeting minutes on line.
I just took a look and the last village of Riverside Board minutes posted on their website are from Nov. 20. Three months in arrears for the village minutes seems a bit extreme to me.I was curious to see if the volunteer commissions were better or worse than the volunteer village board with their minutes.
For 2006, Landscape and Preservation have 100% completion of their minutes.
Zoning & Historical have no minutes at all (perhaps they are not required to, perhaps the link to their missing minutes should be removed in that case.)
Planning Commission is missing minutes for September.And finally, our bad boys of minutes...
The Cable Commission and the EDC have a tie.....
Each is missing 7 months of minutes for the 2006 calendar year!Perhaps our (in arrears) commissions and board should talk with LAC and Preservation to find out how they manage to get their minutes up in a timely manner without a secretary.
Posted Thursday Feb 15, 2007 09:45 #
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