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Which Trustees Can We Look To Now To Vote Down the TIF

(8 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by Catherine
  • Latest reply from Catherine

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  1. Catherine
    Member

    Some, actually most of you know the voting patterns and ways of each of the trustees better than I do. Now, I know not all of them can be indifferent to the results of the referendum. I think some of them may not have wanted the TIF already, and some may have wished to limit it to the CBD. All of these indicate willingness.

    The unfailing conviction of certitude on the part of Trustee Shields is hard for me to understand. I am inclined to attribute it to arrogance. I may be wrong, but he is not going to bend to the will of the voters, thinking them 'misguided.'

    Trustee Smith is an independent. This can be seen in the fact that some of us like some things he does, and dislike others. Therefore, he is toeing no party line but calls them as he sees them.

    Candice Grace shows willingess to argue with and therefore stand up to others. In the 4/14 meeting she was arguing the diviseness of keeping residential areas in the TIF.

    I get Scully and Scanlon mixed up. One of them seems to listen to people, the other I cannot recall.

    I know the president of the board prefers to have unanimous votes, but I think we may hope for a divided one here.

    Is it a 4/3 majority that is required, and what say you about the votes and characteristics of the other trustees that would incline them to disagree with Shields, acknowledge the referendum, and vote down proceeding with the TIF?

    Posted Friday Apr 20, 2007 12:03 #
  2. Tim
    Member

    Throwing things in reverse can be difficult, but is certainly not unthinkable.

    It may be wise for the informed members of this forum to continue to probe alternatives to TIF in lieu of continued criticism of our Board Members for their shortcomings. It is just my opinion, but putting a viable alternative on the table to move forward may go a long way toward preventing enactment of the TIF Document.

    The Village "need" for the TIF was purported as two-fold...to assist in financing for infrastructure woes and to promote economic development withing the CBD. The people have voted and have found the TIF lacking...but what else can we do?

    Our Village has always put forth an effort to take advantage of numerous state and federal grant programs to offset municipal costs. If they are willing to show good faith and transparency in need for infrastructure improvements I do not see why taxpayers shouldn't support improvements on a need by need basis. This would be an an alternative for infrastructure financing, without unnecessary hidden impact on our other taxing bodies.

    Creating a program to assist commercial property owners to take advantage of preservation incentives at both the federal and local level. Strictly enforcing our current zoning codes. Creating fee waiver programs and taking advantage of green incentives. These ideas have all been raised as alternatives to assist in economic development. Many of these incentives also come with built in protections that would help to preserve our NHL status....an advantage lacking in the TIF proposal.

    The people have spoken against the TIF. The door is open for our Village Board to listen...

    ...and if they do, I think it is very important to consider alternatives as the next step.

    Posted Friday Apr 20, 2007 12:58 #
  3. Catherine
    Member

    Yes, I thought the infrastructure maintenance argument was strong and tried to track that down. It turned out that the only money earmarked of the 20M for infrastructure was infrastructure improvements necessitated by new construction.

    So the TIF infrastructure argument does not scan.

    Then one of the workshops was meant to be a comprehensive review of the budget, but it was turned into something called a land use study.

    So there has been no comprehensive presentation of the budget, with complete breakdowns and line items, and explanations for same. That is the reason why people are not convinced that the new money is necessary; they suspect imperfect spending of existing tax money. Everybody understands and accepts that when outflow exceeds inflow, more money is needed. But first they look to make sure spending is fully trimmed. Voters are not children who do not understand such matters. If more money is required and voters won't give it to you, you have to assume you have failed to explain yourself sufficiently, not look for undemocratic funding sources.

    Therefore the argument that more money than is available is needed also does not compute.

    The TIF will have to be voted down before other alternatives can be considered. The trustees know what the existing instruments are, and also someone here on this forum who has a lot of knowledge about historical preservation funding has presented to them on that.

    What people agree on is that they don't want the TIF. That has to be voted down first. So, I still think that has to be the focus and hence the question,

    Who can we look to to be persuaded by the voters, as well as the other unattractive aspects of the TIF, and vote the TIF down. Answering this question requires not a criticism of Board members, but an analysis of their voting patterns and inclinations.

    Posted Friday Apr 20, 2007 13:25 #
  4. Catherine
    Member

    And for trustees that may read this section, a brand new study about TIFs commissioned by county commissioner Quigley:

    http://www.commissionerquigley.com/tif.shtm

    Posted Friday Apr 20, 2007 13:45 #
  5. spatny
    Member

    Tim, it would be simple to have the DPW give them a three year plan for necessary infrastructure repairs and upgrades. Mike Hullihan knows these things and how they would be required over the next 36-48 months. Perhaps $500,000 could be added in for some sort of downtown cosmetic upgrade. There will be new tax monies coming in from the VC, and the other new projects on Ogden and Burlington. If they didn't waste money on tinpot consultants they would have had a good start at sprucing up the downtown with maybe some new benches, plantings.awnings - whatever. Simultaneously they should build into the code a stringent design review process that would adequately control what is built in the CBD. They don't need a $30,000 effort by Camiros - they can look at other places that have them and adapt it to fit our situation. Then they can go to the voters with a plan that says we need to fix this and this is what it costs, we want to do this to make our downtown more attractive and hopefully entice another business or two to come in. Let's say they had a $5,000,000. bond issue and the people would decide if it was worth it or not. While that was happening they could look at other areas where cost-effective initiatives could be used - Harlem, etc. That would make sense to everybody, and people who voted for it would be entitled to demand its prompt execution.

    Catherine - left to right as we face them, here is my personal opinion based on observation, conversations and guesses:

    Trustee Grace - I think she will realize that this was a bad idea, poorly executed and could be expected to honor the will of the voters.

    Trustee Scanlon - as above. He is genuinely interested in doing the best for the Village.

    Trustee Shields - Hopeless.

    President Wiaduck - Touted as a consensus builder one gets the impression that he is sometimes pained by the rants he hears from BOTH sides, but he also appears to believe that development (as at the VC) will be good for Riverside in the long run. He is viewed as the driving force and person most responsible for the VC being built in its present form. Negative.

    Trustee Scully - Intractable - would love to proved wrong.

    Trustee Smith - A maverick, independent thinker, takes it seriously, also thinks a lot of it is foolish and a waste of time, to his credit has voted against more money for consultants, against the VC variance, etc. I have high hopes that he understands that there is a genuine dislike among the residents for packing the Village with more VC-like buildings, developer handouts, etc. I have great hopes for Kevin to do the right thing. He's a PD and has to go against the odds quite often, but he can't be swayed by what we say - for or against. He'll do his own thing.

    Trustee Gustafson - I hold out the hope that she will respect the voters. I think she believes this was the Village Manager's pet and has already cost way too much.

    As you can see, I remain optimistic. Despite some speeches to the contrary, I think most of the Trustees believe in the concept of a free and fair election, where some win and some lose. This election was tainted to some extent, but not by those who opposed the TIF. By those elected officials that said it was meaningless and they didn't care how it came out. This is not Belarus. Using the bully pulpit to whine in the paper that the other side was unfair when you just spent thousands of the voters tax dollars to mail out your own puff piece is frankl;y pathetic. What can you do with people like that? Ojl;y watch them to see the voters get a fair deal.

    At the last Workshop the land along the River near where the Youth Center is were conveniently left off the map and not included in the discussion and alsmot slipped through. Since I have been going to meetings and asking for that to be removed for months, I don't see that as an accident. I see the hand of the Village Manager behind this entire thing. Somebody said, maybe you, that they thought te Village Manager should live in town, and I think that's a great idea. The job pays enough to be able to do that. I think it is a good idea to ask the voters about what they want to do before attempting to do it, not after. And then full disclosure. Remember, we have still to see the numbers that relate to what the consultants actually project from this TIF. I don't know what they are, and they might be absolutely unreliable, but we should have had them out there before the election. Why didn't this happen?

    We had a referendum about the tunnel - it lost, and there was supposedly to be a notification of closure sent to the RTA, but that was never done. At the last workshop I heard discussion of a "western crossing" discussed (which means a tunnel from west of the station to the Tomececk Parking Facility) which together with the land aquisition and construction of said facility would eat up a good $6-7 million or more. We don't need that. It would just serve commuters, and we already cope with al;l we need to.

    In all these projects they are intent on discussing the devil is truly in the details. This workshop format of sitting there and including one thing and throwing out another when they will mostly all never be built while this Board is sitting is like the kings of europe drawing up boundaries in Africa and making new countries. Look at the problems that has caused.

    I hope that enough of these honest and well-intentioned people will step up and say enough - recognize this as the mistake it was, abandon it and move on. Giving this sequestered revenue stream to the people who are likely to vote for it would be, in my opinion, the ruination of Riverside and the greatest disservice they could do.

    Posted Friday Apr 20, 2007 15:16 #
  6. Catherine
    Member

    I'm getting these names bollixed. Who besides Gustafson did not stand this year. Was it Scanlon?

    I'm going to repeat this from the 2009 string:

    So, up for re-election in 2009, should they be inclined to stand:

    Grace
    Shields
    Smith
    Wiaduck

    and sitting with whomever wins will be

    Sells
    Scully
    Sussman

    and a 4/3 vote is required to prevail on matters. Do I have this right?

    Posted Friday Apr 20, 2007 16:34 #
  7. Catherine
    Member

    I see from the newly posted 2007 Board minutes this:

    "Trustee Scully stated that the Board needs input from the referenda to be voted on at the 4/17/07 election before considering estimates of further TIF work."

    Spatny, he has the input: NO TIF, so I would guess this means he is tractable and will vote it down.

    Thanks for your review of the trustees. I too would think it very strange that 4 of them would not accede to the wishes of the voters.

    Posted Friday Apr 20, 2007 17:32 #
  8. Catherine
    Member

    Spatny,

    Well, as you said, Messrs Wiaduck and Shields were the most anxious to go for a vote on May 7 and get to the JRB. It is strange that they thought the voters to have insufficient information on the TIF to properly assess it, yet thought the TIF sufficient to be reviewed by the JRB. If we are not as smart as the JRB, perhaps our votes for the trustees ought to be voided and disregarded in the same way. It is not the JRB that is going to have to live in and try to walk or drive through Condo Canyon.

    I was favorably impressed by the rest of them, with the exception of the pretense of wanting the input of the JRB. I believe trustee Smith did not so embarrass himself. They also said they wanted our input, then ignored it. However, they did resist the false alarmism of needing a vote right away, trustees Grace and Smith are particularly to be commended for trying to get residential areas out of the TIF, and the overall effect, in spite of what was said about the nullity of the referendum, gave the impression that because of the vote they at least wanted to slow down, get rid of unnecessary irritants in the plan, and make sure they and everybody else knew what they were about. So to me that passes for listening (if not obeying). I think it's progress.

    It was amusing they pretended the TIF vote was irrational, but took the no condos on the first floor vote to be a rational confirmation of the B2 ordinance. Embarrassing, really.

    I remember who Scully is now. [I am always mixing him up with Scanlon.] I might be missing something, but I like him!

    Posted Wednesday Apr 25, 2007 14:32 #

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